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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a small fish tank and my fish keep geting bigger and the tank is never clean even after I clean it.
:fish-in-a-bag:
 

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fishboydanny
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how big is the tank? how big are the fish? what kind of fish?

all I can say is get a bigger tank, or get new fish apropriate for the size of the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My tank is like 24" tall and I dont know how big around it is it is an octagonal tank. The fish I have are two gold fish that my mom got for me for my B-Day, and then she got some Mallies and one died now I have 2 goldfish and a mallie. so now u know about my tank. My pore Mallie hides in my plaster log that I put in there. expecaly after the other mallie was eaten by the goldfish.
 

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fishboydanny
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Goldfish get huge! we have some ate school that are two feet long including tail (comets)! you DEFINETELY need a biger tank or new fish. sounds like a great size for a pair of angelfish though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm planing on putting them out in my moms pond when sumer comes.
 

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fishboydanny
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not if it's heated... is it?
 

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Catch and Release
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Hang on a sec, you have mollies in your tank with golfish?
I'm not sure if that what you meant...

If they are mollies, you can't keep coldwater with tropical fish. That is probably why one died, and the other hides all day. If you have a heater, the goldfish would be taking a hit from the warm water. I am assuming you don't have one, that is why your mollies are suffering. It will probably be a while now before you put your goldfish in a pond. I recommend either getting a new tank for your mollies, or giving one away. There is no way you will be able to keep both the mollies and goldfish in the same tank.
 

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Hang on a sec, you have mollies in your tank with golfish?
I'm not sure if that what you meant...

If they are mollies, you can't keep coldwater with tropical fish. That is probably why one died, and the other hides all day. If you have a heater, the goldfish would be taking a hit from the warm water. I am assuming you don't have one, that is why your mollies are suffering. It will probably be a while now before you put your goldfish in a pond. I recommend either getting a new tank for your mollies, or giving one away. There is no way you will be able to keep both the mollies and goldfish in the same tank.
This is one of the more common misbeliefs. Mollies do best with temps between 70 and 79 degrees. Goldfish are highly adaptive and can tolerate a wide range of temperatures. People think that goldfish are "cold weather" fish because they can winter over outside in most areas. In their natural environment they face temperatures from the freezing point up to 120 degrees. Goldfish actually do best at about 75 degress, right in the middle of the mollies range.

The January issue of Tropical Fish Hobbyist had a good article on common goldfish myths.
 

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Catch and Release
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Wow, about 75F? Isn't that the temp for most tropical fish? Would that mean you could keep goldfish with other tropical, or just mollies?
 

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Wow, about 75F? Isn't that the temp for most tropical fish? Would that mean you could keep goldfish with other tropical, or just mollies?
First, let me say I am not a goldfish guy. Never really got into them...But yes, according to the article goldfish can be kept with tropical fish that require the same water parameters. Just remember that warmer water holds less oxygen. So on warmer tanks make sure you have good surface agitation and/or lots of plants (but goldfish eat most plants).
 

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I recommend either getting a new tank for your mollies, or giving one away. There is no way you will be able to keep both the mollies and goldfish in the same tank.
Even though the temperature might not exactly be a problem, mollies do best when you have some salt in the water. It makes them happier since the also need slightly akaline water; having the salt added would be helpful for that.
 

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Even though the temperature might not exactly be a problem, mollies do best when you have some salt in the water. It makes them happier since the also need slightly akaline water; having the salt added would be helpful for that.

This is another one of those common knowledge aquarium rules that I can't find substantiated anywhere. Mollies tolerate everything from no salt to full salt water (Yes, I've seen a saltwater molly tank). Everyone says mollies do best with a little salt in the water, but I've never seen anything scientific that shows this.

If anyone knows of a study that compares the use of salted vs. unsalted water with mollies I'd be greatly interested in reading it.
 

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Mollies in the wild

Besides the fact that aquarium mollies aren’t any one species, muddying the waters yet further is the remarkable adaptability that mollies show in terms of environment. There really isn’t any one definitive “molly habitat”. Poecilia mexicana is found, for example, even in and around caves, where the waters are dark and rich in calcium sulphate. These cave-dwelling populations of Poecilia mexicana are pink and have relatively small eyes, but have highly developed taste receptors on the head and an enlarged lateral line system to compensate for the lack of light. Other mollies are found in estuaries and around mangroves, being well able to live in full-strength seawater without problems.

For the most part though, mollies are inhabitants of freshwater streams flowing across coastal plains. The water chemistry is typically hard and alkaline, pH 7.5 to 8.0 and hardness 15-30˚dH. Although water temperature may vary depending on geographical location, most mollies seem prefer warm water environments and are most common where the water temperature is around 25-28˚C (77-82˚F). These streams aren’t saline though, and while mollies certainly are found in brackish waters, that isn’t their primary habitat.

Mollies have been transported around the world and released into all kinds of environments. There are, for example, populations of mollies established in the marine Gulf of Thailand. Mollies have also become established in the United States in freshwater rivers and lakes far inland, where they can pose a serious threat to the survival of native fishes. In these cases, the mollies concerned are hybrids very like those kept by aquarists (in fact, in many cases they were descended from aquarium fish turned loose by careless aquarists and fish breeders). Because they are so similar to the aquarium fish, these feral mollies demonstrate quite clearly that while mollies can live in brackish and salt waters, they are just as able to survive in freshwater environments as well.

To salt, or not to salt, that is the question!

If mollies can live in freshwater in the wild, why do so many experienced aquarists recommend keeping them in brackish water? To understand this, it is important to realise that marine salt mix does more than simply raise the salinity.

Marine salt mix contains table salt plus a huge variety of other mineral salts, including a large quantity of salts that raise pH and increase hardness. The addition of marine salt to molly aquarium provides mollies with water chemistry much closer to that which they prefer and also acts as a buffer, inhibiting any subsequent water chemistry changes. Tonic salt can’t do this, because it contains nothing by sodium chloride, a chemical that doesn’t modify pH or hardness at all. An aquarist adding a certain amount of salt to the molly aquarium is effectively guaranteeing the correct water conditions without any need to mess about with pH buffers or water hardening agents.

Plain table salt — sodium chloride — does have some useful functions though. It dramatically reduces the toxicity of nitrite and nitrate, a purpose for which it was put to extensive use in the early days of the hobby. Because filters were less efficient and water changes performed less often (on the theory that “old water” was better) adding small amounts of table salt to freshwater aquaria actually did some good. Repackaged table salt, known as tonic salt, is still available to aquarists, though it has no real purpose in the modern hobby. After all, better filtration and more water changes are the best way to deal with poor water quality! But mollies do appear to be peculiarly sensitive to nitrite and nitrate, despite their widespread sale as beginners’ fish. In saline water, the toxicity of these compounds is so much less that the fish come to no harm; in fact, mollies have been used for decades to mature marine and brackish water aquaria. But in freshwater tanks, they need excellent water quality if they are to do well.

Salt, whether marine mix or table salt, is also an effective anti-parasite and antifungal medication when used in sufficient quantities. Teaspoon-per-gallon quantities, though often recommended, will have at most a marginal effect compared with commercial whitespot or fungus remedies. But once the salinity gets to a fairly high level, around 20-25% the salinity of normal seawater (SG 1.004-1.006) then most freshwater parasites find it very difficult to survive, and fungal infections tend to fade away quite rapidly. Mollies kept in around half-strength seawater (SG 1.012) will as good as never get infected with parasites because very few, if any, brackish water parasites have managed to become established in the aquarium hobby. By contrast, mollies kept in freshwater aquaria are extraordinarily prone to a number of diseases, including whitespot, fungus, finrot, and “the shimmies” — a neurological disorder that manifests itself as an inability for the fish to swim properly, instead the fish can only tread water, rocking from side to side. Though the absence of salt likely doesn’t cause these problems, adding salt is certainly one way to deal with them. Low temperatures are likely a factor as well, because a fish’s immune system will be optimised to work within a certain range of temperatures. The aquarium standard 25˚C (77˚F) is at the low end of what mollies enjoy, and it is probably this, coupled with poor water quality, that makes them so disease-prone in the average community tank.

Mollies


This shows that while the molly can adapt and endure variable conditions, its better off to have some salt, to prevent unnecessary dieseases, and to have a higher temperature, since that's what they prefer. This would promote a less stressful life for the fish, which is what we want in this hobby. A less stressed fish has a greater chance of survival.:dont_tap_the_glass:
 

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The WetWebMedia.com article is a good one. Thank you.

The article says that the use of marine salts is helpful because mollies are sensitive to nitrites and nitrates and marine salts limits the effects of poor water quality. It seems that use of salt could be offset by taking proper care of the water. The article even states "better filtration and more water changes are the best way to deal with poor water quality!"

The article also says that the use of marine salts helps raise the pH and hardness of the water. What if you use water that is already hard with naturally high pH?

What I'd like to see is an actual scientific study that shows that mollies do better in a salted water. Something like a large group of fry raised in different tanks with identical conditions except for salinity. Then compare the size of the fish, life expectency, and brood sizes.
 

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True. I agree with your first statement; partial water changes cannot be replaced in aquarium keeping.

To your second part, I would say that if the pH and hardness are already okay, then it is okay for them, since the actual water they live in is really more concentrated with other minerals, such as calcium, magnesium, potassium, silicon, all of which are used of no particular use to the fish, anyways, but alter the chemistry of the water. So, yes, "salt" is not necessary if you have the right water already. But for everyone else who has soft water, a little salt wouldn't be a bad idea.

For the third item, which is a really good question, I couldn't find squat. I did find, however, that it is said thatthe giant sailfin mollygrows larger under such conditions as is displayed in the bracksih aquarium. Poeciliids
Possibly someone else can find something that is backed up.
 
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