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Discussion Starter #1
Ninja is my 60 tank community male Betta who has lived peacefully since January with the resident 10 Tiger Barbs 2 silver Dollars, 3male molly's, 5 Tetra Minors, 3 Cory, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 3 otto's and 1 Gobi Dragon.
So I bought a new male Betta for my 120 tanks thinking he would certainly get along with my resident 4 angle fish, 6 BP's, 1 Pleco, 4 Otto, 3 Cory, and 3 female molly's. I named him Assassin because during the day he was placid, friendly and peaceful, but I discovered that when the evening lights were turned off he was attacking my largest angels tenaciously. One angle particular had gill wounds with gill wounds I discovered the next morning. Thinking that perhaps swapping him out with Ninja in the 60 tank would be more compatible with faster swimming fish as angles are slow with flowing fins.
Everything seemed to work out fine with Ninja being his calm peaceful self with the angles in the 60 tank and Assassin looking much more calm with the with the more confident Barbs. Then it was lunch time and Assassin's true colors came out by not allowing any community fish to get near the food with very threatening posturing. So Assassin now had his own large floating breeder tank and seems content while Ninja still remains a peaceful member of the community. So it appears that not all Betta's can live peacefully in community tanks regardless of the compatibility match up.

Ninja remains at peace in community tank.
 

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Unfortunately bettas so differ in their temperment and just switching the tank may not be the answer. I am fearful that since barbs and gouramis do not get along with bettas to begin with the little "Assassin" will be aggressive towards them and one of the fish either barb, gourami, or betta will pay with their life. You can certainly try it if you are determined but it has been my experience that once a betta is found to be an ornery one, it will not get along unless it is alone. They make good pets isolated in their own space but do not choose to be tank mates to any other fish. It is too bad that they sometimes have that nature but that is the way they are made and actually you have an unusual one that gets along well with the fish in the tank. You may find that moving Ninja will cause him to be insecure and territorial and perhaps bring on a fit of aggression from him as well. This is the hazard in transfers. They set up a territory and if you disturb it, it does something to their personality that triggers the aggression. So please do not be surprised to see the gentler, kinder little fellow turn nasty if he does. Usually all it will take is to place him back into his comfort zone and/or put him in his own area.

It is never my recommendation to place semi aggressives together in the same tank unless it is a HUGE tank and there are very few fish in there and there are a LOT of caves and plants (like over 75% planted) as they are grouchy to start with and it is asking for a bit of trouble putting a bunch of bullies together and not giving them somewhere to get away from each other that the other guy cannot follow. We have to remember that when we put these fish in a tank that severely limits their ability to defend themselves when we mix fish that really should not be placed in the same tank together. When they hit glass that is as far as they can swim to get away. If they were in a river, pond or ocean the combinations would be limitless as they would be able to find their own hiding places and get away easily but not when we place boundaries and limits.

Now I am not scolding but only trying to explain that you have a lot of semi aggressives in the tank so you are going to have injuries to deal with, that is their nature and while I would not do it, a lot of people like aggressive themed tanks. The only way I see around it at this point is to make sure to provide a lot of cover.

Hope this helps and by the way, they are lovely little guys. Congratulations! Love the spunky look about them. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Wow thank you for the objective and thorough answer. Ninja was placed back in his home tank but I sort of get the feeling he rather enjoyed himself exploring the 120 with the placid residence. Assassin is staying inside large breeder for mow until I can install a 10 unit, 10 gallon Betta condo inside the back of a 180 used acrylic tank and cabinet I'm supposed to pick up for $200.
So the betta's aside what else do you see that I have specifically that may have aggressive issue? The only other issues I have had is with the Barbs on barbs but they never seem to do fatal injury only superficial and then its over and the injured becomes submissive and then accepted again. Or do you mean just with respect to Betta interactions with other fish? This of course is my last two Bettas until as I mentioned I install a permanganate separator for viewing and easy access inside an existing tank.
When it comes to assessments I have always taught and been taught in the Coast Guard to accept objective criticism because that is how we learn. Its when answers or questions become accusational (if that's a word lol) that I must retort. But I have learned its best not to answer and move on to the next objective comment lol. Again thanks..
 

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It is the general class of the fish involved that is semi aggressive. Actually you may be surprised to know that of the ones you have listed that several fall into that classification.

The Barbs of course and the Gouramis and Bettas but also the Angels fall into that class not so much because they are tempermental but due to their tendency to be territorial.
Bettas and Gouramis are generally not considered compatible at all because they are both of the same family and as such will fight each other as if you have put two males of the same species together. They consider each other threats of a major order and the only time I have seen this work is when they are in huge tanks with plenty of cover and crossed fingers that they do not discover each other. Once they do they fixate on the other one and one or the other will be injured or die. Barbs are just cross when interfered with and do better if they have a large number of each other where they just stay together and more or less leave the others alone but again in all of these fish huge tanks make the rule. Territorial fish are vicious when they feel crowded and you do have them. You will only have a problem with the Angels if you have a breeding pair and it comes time for them to spawn and some of the other encroach on their territory, or if your pair is not a breeding pair and one or the other decides they would like to try it with the other. Then you will have a problem. Unfortunately, Angels are a lot like Bettas when it comes to breeding, they decide on the mate not us. But Angels carry it one step further and usually accept only one partner where a Betta may take more than one in their lifetime but carefully. Breeding either of these fish is a challenge and a lot of work both before and after.

Your tanks are larger so you should be okay with care but you will not be able to fill your tanks with smaller filler fish to make the tank more active. That will simply frustrate and aggravate your territorial darlings. A tank like you have is fascinating but will not be as active and quick moving as a more pacifistic tank would be. But it will be a beautiful and relaxing tank to watch when you want to just take it easy. I wish you the best with it and look forward to your posts and statements. I think I will learn a lot from your tanks. Thank you for joining.

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Gosh I love it when people back up there critiques with in depth reasoning, thanks allot. You know I never knew that about the Betta and Dwarf Gouramis as I haven see it. when Assassin was in the tank he always targeted the Silver Dollars. But with what you said in your earlier post I now have Ninja and well as Assassin in there own floating breeder which actually isn't floating around but stays stuck to one side against the glass due to surface tension but no ties for fish safety. Since I am not a water plant person I long ago abandoned the idea and have been using good quality "aquarium" plastic plants and ironically be fore we spoke just install a bunch more as the fish seem to prefer more of them then less. 14 plants and 3 caves in the 60 tank, and 12 plants one extremely massive bamboo and 5 caves in my 120 tank. I suppose I should update or add new photos. The 60 tank appearing larger is just a photo size and proportional illusion.
Below the 120 tank followed by the 60 tank. If you look closely you will see both Bettas in there respective separate containers, also you will see 2 of my 6 BP's peeking out from behind the clay pots lol.

 

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LOL...I really am not trying to give you a hard time. Just keep you from having a nightmare experience of a time with the tank. Believe me in the time that I have known people getting new bettas and getting them used to being in tanks...the stories they have told about the problems they have had!!! So my purpose as I see it is to keep others from having to do the finding out by personal experience thing.

Bettas can be mischieveous and just plain naughty but also very lovable if you pay attention to them and develop their personality but they can also make just another fish in the tank if that is what you want although they really like humans more than the other fish in their tanks. This is why I really think they do not realize they are fish themselves. It is partially because they are not raised in a tank with other fish. Each of them has their very own jar or container from the moment that it is determined that they are males. So they never learn proper manners as to how to behave with a tank full of others. So if your betta is naughty, just consider it a child who has never been in a social setting before and you will be able to understand why they are the way they are.

I am a bit crazy when it comes to them, but you see I am with mine 24/7 and they are my family more or less. So they get so spoiled. But it is entirely up to you what you want to do with yours. I just want you to have the best experience with them without the injuries and drama that can sometimes happen.

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oh no I don't think you are either not one tiny bit. I'm just trying to reassure you and pay you a complement about your objectiveness. Expressing a meaning is not always an easy thing to do in writing, and is something I'm still learning about. No problem I think your right but I think I was convinced the moment you told me your avatar was actually your Betta.
 

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Well thank you! I do love the little guy. He is my only one at the moment of this particular species. I have cut back due to some family commitments and they do take time. Since I would rather not have them than neglect them I decided a while back not to replace any that went the way of older bettas. This little guy is my little baby and he knows he is a brat.

I did not personally see to his spawning but have a lot of respect for the people who did. He is the only Thailand breeder I would consider ordering from and usually would prefer to order from the USA where they have gone through quarantine before I buy them. I do not buy from petstores as I cannot get out to them easily although I have heard that the stock they have had on hand has been rapidly improving.

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The Bettas the corporate LFS have on stock look great when they first come in and even though they make an attempt to refresh their water cups once a week there is just not enough turn over in purchases and most I believe expire, at least here where I live. However the mom & pop LFS only order what they can sell and keep them in a segregated filtered aquarium.
The purchase of a used 150 acrylic tank and stand I was planning to build a Betta tank inside of unfortunately didn't work out and turned out to be Craiglist hoax costing me a 60 mile trip for an April fools message. Actually glad it was not meant to be as I can only afford space for one more aquarium aesthetically and I really would prefer to get the size I want in acrylic. Since I live in the tri-state of AZ, LV, and CA finding the size I want is just a matter of time. Craiglist is investigating.
 
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maybe your betta has a anger management issue?

Mine developed one recently when I rearranged the tank and clustered/connected nearly all the plants to eachother and gave him a real nice hang-out, but he started attacking everything including the kuhlis that slap him around with their madness we call swimming.

I seperated or spread it out more and he returned to being the centerpiece instead of the maniac. He is hand trained and gets pampering like the angel does.

Mines a 26g bowfront sand bottom.

1 quarter size marble angel
1 male betta
3 speckled/spotted cories
3 black kuhli's
6 neons
3 cherry tetras maybe
2 silver w blck/ylw fins tetra
1 silver w/ red tail tetra



Sorry first post.
Ill go intro now.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well Iv resigned myself to accepting the fact that Betta's have been exclusively bred for fighting for such a long period of time that its prudent just to keep them separated as far as I'm concerned, however this is not something I would every try and impose on someone else if they want to deal with community Betta's. I just have other things on my plate that I personally consider more important like making sure the rest of my two diverse community tanks are healthy and peaceful. So far so good as my BP's, Angles, Neon's, Otto's, and Silver dollars, are all getting along great.
 

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I have introduced Diablo to Kuhli's and he is tolerating them but just barely. I have a horrid snail problem brought on by my latest plant order ....GRRRRR! So now will be looking for a fish for each tank that will take care of the problem as I do not do chemical removal and it is past the point of hand removal already. They will then be going to their own tank as they will be fish that get too large for the present tank if the other fish are there too. (angelicus loaches?) Looking forward to them as they look fascinating.

Got a new canister filter too as the EHEIM actually fell apart on me when I tried to do the maintenance so that made me decide to go with the Marineland this time. Diablo got a new HOB canister style filter also so he is a happy camper also. I like a lot of filtration in my tanks to keep the water pristine even though they do get weekly changes too.

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well I'm confident when it comes to placing your Beta with other fish you know what your doing. My ears perked up when you mentioned your EHEIM fell apart, mind sharing what model it was and how many years of use it had, and what exactly broke? I'm always interested in who machines fail or work.
 

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It was an EHEIM Ecco Model 2232 for tanks up to 35 gallons. I was priming it and the handle broke right off in my hands and sent water spewing all over the place. On that model and all the Ecco models the handle is used to "pump" the filter to prime it and the thing just broke off on one side and caused a shower of tank water all over. Since I am not an expert at repairing things like that and I do not trust ordering repair parts and giving things a second try I got the Marineland C canister filter and so far am LoVING it so much! It is so quiet and so easy to run after it is set up that I cannot imagine getting any other one anymore. The only thing that I can say that I am not thrilled 100% with is that they do not have much for a flow adjustment on it but the fish I have in that tank do not mind having a bit more flow since there are no bettas there.

Oh and the EHEIM filter had only been in use for about a year although it was over two years old as I was not brave enough to start it until about a year ago. It was my first foray into the world of canister filters. Now I have them on all my tanks even the 12 gallon has a HOB Canister (Mini) on it.

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks that is very good info as I have been looking to possibly buy a 2nd canister for my 120 instead of perusing my DIY canister project. I already have 2 Marineland Magnum 350's one for my 60 tank and the other for my 120 tank and although they are super reliable, simple, and rugged I am tempted to jump into the designer canister world. But every time I do research I hear the same thing, the Marineland canisters lasting over 5-10 years without issues and the designer canisters always braking handles, nozzles or cracking the base. Another reason why I want a 3rd canister now is to get it cycled and established for a 150 tank I have been searching for used. Its out there somewhere with my name on it lol.
 

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The Marineland C class canisters have all the lovely features of the designers and the dependability of Marineland. I would highly recommend them. I love the quiet and solid operation and there is not a lot of stuff that is placed to break. They send a DVD to show you exactly how to set up the whole system and get it running and as far as I am concerned their customer service has yet to be equalled. I will not stray again. All my tanks and now all my filters for the most part are from them except for the mini canister on the 12 gallon that is an off brand but works very well. But if Marineland had made a canister for a tank that small I would have had it instead!

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I am a little worried though about Marineland customer service as on my last purchase of a new Penguin 350 HOB having a bent impeller shaft had to make no less then 1 phone call and 3 emails over a 2 month to get them to finally send me the part. This was so unlike Marineland CS until I recently did some researched and found out that Marine land a division of United Pet Group was recently sold to another company called United Industries (makes Spectrum insecticide) for $350M after United Pet Group filed bankruptcy last February. So apparently the belts have tightened and it may be harder to get the easy replacement parts for new defective components under warranty. For me at least this last CS request on a new item was like pulling eye teeth. I just hope the quality control doesn't go down as well.
 

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I do not know about the problem, could be but the recent purchase of the canister filter made me call them a couple times during the installation as I am not mechanically inclined and they spent a long time with me and no complaints with it at all. I should not have needed as much time as I took as they sent along a lot of instruction but after the fiasco with EHEIM I did not want to take chances. I was really impressed. But then I did not need parts in fact had more parts than I needed in the box.

Rose
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Ironically I have to call them about my brand new Magnum 250 HOB canister filter I just received as part of my order from Pet Solutions. I ordered the filter as a portable to use on my plastic QT when needed instead of water changes everyday. Anyway being an engineer I was quite impressed with the design and function of the filter, the only problem is that the optional polishing filter was damaged crushed on one corner rendering it useless. Although I hardly use the polishing filter as I prefer carbon, sponge, and poly wool in my canisters, I will need to call them and request a new one. So we will see how this one is handled.

PS I bought a new/used 80 tall tank with stand and everything you could possible need for years to come plus allot of extras for $150. Best of all it was only 2 miles from my home. Sad part the sale was part of a job loss sale which seems to be a common occurrence these days. I pray that the GOV will not take away my military pension in the future like what occurred in the former Soviet Union when they collapsed all pensions stopped, been retired 5 years now. My friends often asked me when I retired at age 47 and even now at age 52 why don't I get a job and I tell them because I know eventually my pension will be taken away and when I'm forced to go back to work I want to be able to say that I once enjoyed retirement LOL.
 
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