Proline vs Prime - Aquarium Forum
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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Proline vs Prime

So I just wanted get some peoples opinions on two different products. As far as water conditioners go, which do you think is better: Proline or Prime? (Both are used to remove nitrogenous waste and chlorines..fyi) Pros, cons, experiences. Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 09:23 AM
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Neither. RO/DI water is best. Additives to the water, like the ones you suggest tend to drive a skimmer nuts when they are initially put in the water.

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Well I'm not working with a typical aquarium. Its for a research project. I am having problems getting rid of Nitrites. It has been a month since the nitrites have formed, and I am wondering if it is the Proline i am using not properly working. I have always used Prime and had great results, but it seems like the Proline isn't having the effects that Prime has.
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 04:51 PM
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

If you are talking about a freshautolinker.com autolinking image water aquarium, I used prime in all the tanks when I worked in a pet store. It seems to help. That being said, the best thing you can do for nitrites is more water changes. I also use purigen in my heavily stocked 30 gal freshwaterautolinker.com autolinking image setup.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Lol guess i should have given more info...okay so here is the complete low down.

I am working with a sheepshead minnow for a research project. I have them in a 15 gal tub (this is what we use for make-shift aquarium) with 2 corner filters supported by an air compressor that gives them way more air than they need.

Temperature: 19 C (required for what I am doing)
Salinity: 25 ppt (again, required for what I am doing)

The tank has been seeding for about a month and a half now. I originally kept the tank at 25 C, so that the starter fish and bacteria would be more productive.

I have been doing 25, 33, and 50% water changes everyday (Depending on the nitrite levels). It has been a month and the tank is still not seeded. I have seeded many tanks before (at this temp and salinity), but it has never taken this long. With all my constant water changes, my fish are doing fine.

I've added proline the whole time, but THE LESS CHEMICALS THE BETTER. With that said, The nitrites were staying at 1.0 ppm, even after a water change and proline. At one point, I stopped feeding for 3 days, and the tanks continued to stay this high. The ammonia level did significantly drop, as well as nitrates. BUT THE NITRITES CONTINUE TO STAY THE SAME.

So again, since I have been using proline to try and control the nitrites to no avail, is it maybe I have a bad batch of proline?
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 06:16 PM
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Not for nothing, but when you start messing with a natural cycle of a tank, thats when you actually screw it up, and it takes longer than the customary 4-6 weeks.
The tank will take care of it by itself, you have but to have patience. Nothing else in the tank? Are you cleaning the filters also? If so, stop. You need the filters to seed bacteria so that eats out the Nitites.

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

The filters haven't been cleaned one time. The sheepshead minnow are the only things in the tank.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-09-2012, 11:44 PM
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

IMO I would relax with water changes, let the system cycle all the way through, by doing continuous water changes you stop the natural cycle, as long as the nitrite are not increasing pass your average 1.0 ppm then your cycle is just trying to mature. You should try adding rock and live sand it helps the natural cycling of your system.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Well the system was has been at 1.0 ppm for a month now and doing the continuous water changes is what is keeping it there. Otherwise it was getting to 1.5 ppm. At 1.0 ppm the fish are going to be alot more stressed and vunerable to disease than at 0 ppm which is where I need it to be.

Unfortunately adding live rock/sand is not an option for me. Because this is scientific research, as many factors need to be ruled out as possible including addition of any kind of substrate.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:21 AM
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Wwlp, i know you don't want to hear this, but, the fish should have been left out until the cycle had been completed. Your filters are growing the needed bacteria for the tank, your just going to have to wait it out. And if your not using RO/DI water, your water changes may be adding Nitrites and other things to the water that are not wanted also. Have you tetsed your tap water?

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Well the tanks were almost seeded before i added the fish. I had a spike in nitrites, but they had almost completely dissappeared and the nitrates has taken off. I only use de-ionized water when i make saltautolinker.com autolinking image-water.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 12:29 PM
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

What are you using for your filtration system
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

My filtration system are corner filters...basically plastic containers that hold porous rock with filter floss on top. An air line forces air down into the bottom of the filter, where it then bubbles back up. The principle behind it is simple water displacement, unlike something like a canister filter, where water is actually intaken by the rotation of a magnet and expelled.
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 07:22 PM
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

I use same filtration system, are you able to add a skimmer to the system or will it interfere with the research. If not a skimmer, then just continue doing 25% water changes because that's really all you can do to temporarily control nitrites and nitrates without adding other variables (more filtration) into the system. My guess is you just need to do water changes until your system matures even more and is able to control the nitrite problem without continuous water changes, my advice is just give it even more time, also the food you are feeding it might contain chemicals that boost nitrite levels, flake food and pellet foods usually do this.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

The skimmer would be a possibility, but I'd have to buy it, and I'd rather not. And your right about the food. I use the Tetraman Flakes, but unfortunately, I need to use this food to supplement their diet.

However, since starting this post, I've been adding 3.5 g of Proline instead of the normal 2.5 g and in combination with water changes, it is having a significant difference. With that said, I don't plan on continuing the course due to the fact that I don't won't to stress the fish out more than needed.

Thanks for the help guys. Got a lot of good info.
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 12:11 PM
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Re: Proline vs Prime

Although I have used prime in the one emergency situation I had, I do not recommend it or other chemicals as part of routine maintenance.

What I recommend is starting the tank balanced out with macro algaes right from the beginning. That way the macros will consume coarbon dioxide and return oxygen while consuming ammonia durint the initial cycle. Then after aerobic bacteria build up the macros will consume nitrates because that is the only nitrogen avaialble.

Before using macros I did get a nitrIte spike but found that by not feeding the fish the first week the nitrItes only lasted a few days.

my .02
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 12:37 PM
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
Although I have used prime in the one emergency situation I had, I do not recommend it or other chemicals as part of routine maintenance.

What I recommend is starting the tank balanced out with macro algaes right from the beginning. That way the macros will consume coarbon dioxide and return oxygen while consuming ammonia durint the initial cycle. Then after aerobic bacteria build up the macros will consume nitrates because that is the only nitrogen avaialble.

Before using macros I did get a nitrIte spike but found that by not feeding the fish the first week the nitrItes only lasted a few days.

my .02
If you don't use Prime "or other chemicals," how do you deal with chloramines in your water supply? Or do you simply use 100% RO/DI and re-enrich with powdered mineral additives?
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 01:33 PM
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Re: Proline vs Prime

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If you don't use Prime "or other chemicals," how do you deal with chloramines in your water supply? Or do you simply use 100% RO/DI and re-enrich with powdered mineral additives?
By letting the tank set for a week before adding fish.

then just topping off.

I do use the diy two part for calcium, alk, magnesium. And I used to dose a little bit of iron (ferris gluconate- 1 pill in an old single serving bottle- one capful each week).

Although RO/DI is supposed to be "necessary" for delicate hard corals, I have found this method works definately for any fish. I have used it in 1/2 dozens cities as I moved around in the air force. So as long as the tap water is potable it should be fine. Plus our current tap water does use chlorimines.


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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 02:00 PM
 
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Re: Proline vs Prime

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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
By letting the tank set for a week before adding fish.
I will note that this method will only lead to a decomposition of about 50% of the chloramines in the water, even over a week's time. I would direct you to a short paper on the topic here. While chloramines do decompose over time without assistance, it is not nearly as much as people might think. Additionally, an equilibrium point is eventually reached and very little decomposition occurs after that point. As I understand it, prime contains a catalyst which drives this reaction at a much faster rate and further removes the products of the reaction. This allows the decomposition to continue to a much greater extent than it ever would have naturally, even if you left the water alone for weeks on end.

If it works for you then it works for you, but I felt that this should be mentioned. Since the OP is also apparently working in a scientific field with these products, a further understanding of chloramine composition might prove useful knowledge in the future.
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Re: Proline vs Prime

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Originally Posted by Chandavi View Post
I will note that this method will only lead to a decomposition of about 50% of the chloramines in the water, even over a week's time. I would direct you to a short paper on the topic here. While chloramines do decompose over time without assistance, it is not nearly as much as people might think. Additionally, an equilibrium point is eventually reached and very little decomposition occurs after that point. As I understand it, prime contains a catalyst which drives this reaction at a much faster rate and further removes the products of the reaction. This allows the decomposition to continue to a much greater extent than it ever would have naturally, even if you left the water alone for weeks on end.

If it works for you then it works for you, but I felt that this should be mentioned. Since the OP is also apparently working in a scientific field with these products, a further understanding of chloramine composition might prove useful knowledge in the future.
Bravo!! Excellent post!!

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Water Parameter: Alk-8:PH-8.2:Cal420:Phosphate.05:Temp77:Nitrates-20:Mag1250:SG1.025
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