The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T! - Aquarium Forum
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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Exclamation The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

The advantages of the medications of Melafix, Pimafix, and Betafix are numerous and almost magical. They do a fantastic job of healing fins and tears and are nearly irreplacable in the aquarist's pharmacy, BUT I have to ask you to reconsider their use in the area of one family of fish. I have known that in the family of fish that have Labyrinth organs and have the need to go to the surface to breathe that these medications will cause deaths in a wild and unpredicable manner. It destroys the ability for the Labyrinth organ to function and allow the fish to breathe air as it needs to and they die horribly.

While I am not saying do not use these medications and would never say that no fish should have the benefit of the good that they do, I am simply advising that the harm they do the fish with Labyrinth organs is more than enough to warrant asking you not to use it in tanks containing any of these fish. There are other medications that may take a while longer and more patience to use to treat the problems of these fish but will not take their lives. That is all I am saying. I do speak from personal experience and do know of other owners of bettas and gouramis in particular who lost fish by using these meds in their tanks trying to help them and killing them in the attempt. The solution to their deaths was brought to my attention when I was moderating at another forum and a moderator from a third forum brought it to our attention when she heard of the deaths that were occurring unexplained on our forum and she had found this problem dealing with her own fish. So this is a problem that has cropped up in the cases of many other owners. Please do take this seriously. As I said I am not slamming the medications. They work wonders but not on Labyrinth organ fishes.

A partial listing of the Anabantids (Labyrinth organ fish) are as follows:

Perch
Combtail
Bettas of all types
Gouramis of all types
Ctenopoma of all types
Paradisefish

and while they are not technically Labyrinth organ fish the same effect seems to be present for some reason on the following:

Pencilfish

Thank you for your attention.

Rose
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 07:27 PM
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

Oops, maybe thats why clifford jumped out, I had been treating with melafix from work( concentrated version) and a few days after that started the top was open and he got out and tried to live the human life.
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

It is sad but they do need to breathe air and it is the one type of fish that can actually drown if they cannot get to a surface that is free of a slick or any hinderances of any type. So many owners are not aware of this thinking that clean water and food are all any fish needs. But there are fish who can drown and the Anabantoids are the family of those who can.

This is another reason that I have always recommended giving bettas a tall plant or some really tall thing to sleep in as it saves them from all the swimming at night when the lights are off to get to the surface to breathe. I think it is a wonderful gift for a sleepy little buddy. A lot of people including my family think this is sappy, but how do they like having to get up at night and having their sleep disturbed all the time? Not much!

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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2009, 11:02 AM
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

Great info Rose, thanks!
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2009, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

I had airstones in the tanks but it did not keep my fish alive and those others that lost fish were not inexperienced fishkeepers either. One of them was quite an expert with the care and attendance of bettas and she lost more fish than any of us over this. I do not distrust the product but over several uses I found that it caused a problem and would not want to risk someone else's fish by not informing them of the problem.

Thank you for the comment though.

Rose
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2009, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

Since I have a 27 year career as a nurse I doubt that dosing was an issue. I am used to figuring dosages for complicated tanks. No the meds were given repeatedly to these fish some of them died with the first dose with my friend and some died after repeated doses so it does appear to have a cumulative affect on the fish. You cannot depend on the fact that because it did not hurt the fish the first time that it will not. Unfortunately my loved Marty, a special bettaautolinker.com autolinking image that I will not ever have the likes of again, was the first that I lost this way and did not understand at the time what had done it. But he had done as your fish had, recovered from a case of fin problems with no difficulty with the help of Melafix and then when I needed to use it the second time it took him.

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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-17-2009, 09:45 PM
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

Thats why we made Rose the Boss of the bettaautolinker.com autolinking image section, and the ONLY Moderator there. All other Staff are considered Guests in that section.





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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2009, 08:49 AM
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

This is an old thread but i had to add my .02. I have a 27" Giant Gourami, i've had this guy since he was a fry and used to feed him freash fruits and veggies. Some of the veggies got hid under the drift wood and started to mold. I didnt see it and the mold got onto the skin of my GG. He was covered with it and almost died. If it wasnt for the pimafix he would have died as a matter of fact it killed my blue channel cat due to a lack of scales to help protect it.
Recently he was over fed while i was on vacation all the extra food in the bottom of the tank shot my params through the roof. He turned a brownish color and didnt move, just layed at the bottom of the tank. After a week of doseing with melafix and emergency water changes hes back to his old self. Although i havent had much experience with medicating my fish these products havent had any ill affects on my Giant Gourami and i will continue to use them when needed for all species of fish including those with labrinth organs. I'm not disputing what Rose posted just i have never heard or seen any ill affects from these products in labrinth fishes.

DION

My Giant Gourami has a gun and refuses to take his meds.

Check out my tanks:
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

As I have said earlier, it is not something that happens the first or second time in all fish but does have a cumulative effect on these fish. Just because it did not kill your fish does not mean it did not weaken its Labyrinth organ and that it will not cause a problem at some point. Some fish die with the first use and others later on, but it has been shown to cause deaths in these fish and when you have a fish that you love there is no way of knowing if you are going to be one of the lucky ones who will get by with using it "just this one time" or not and I felt that I had to post the warning for those of the ones who risked losing the fish on the first or second attempt or at all.

To those who choose to continue its use, it is your choice totally and like I said they are miracle meds for other fish but I truly do recommend holding their use in the case of the Labyrinth organ fish as there are other meds that will work without causing the damage to the organ that helps to keep these fish healthy and alive. Like I have always said, it is totally up to you and what you choose but the information is here for your use.

Rose
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

A very good point Rose and has prompted me to research these products in depth, starting with the active ingredient in Melafix (Melaleuca Ca#8008-98-8). Im glad for the sake of all hobbiest that you posted this thread/warning it was truely an eye opener.

Thank you Rose.

Dion

My Giant Gourami has a gun and refuses to take his meds.

Check out my tanks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyOK8Ymd9l8
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2009, 07:46 PM
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

Thanks for that conversation, i think this an item, that deserves being revived on occasion, even with differing opinions. And may save someone from accidently harming their fish.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2009, 10:15 PM
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

why not sticky it or as i mentioned earlier somewhere else maybe make a forum that is an archive of all the valuable info that goes on in here like a freshautolinker.com autolinking image and saltautolinker.com autolinking image archive maybe just copy the thread in there and close it then just leave the one out here open with a link in the archived portion so that if anyone has any questions they can come back to the original thread and gravedig a lil

thats generally what i have always done in the forums i have ran and it worked pretty good

just my

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2009, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

It is stickied. I did it when I first posted it but thanks for the suggestion.

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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-05-2009, 05:04 PM
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

I do consultancy work for Mars Fishcare (owners of API, makers of Melafix and Pimafix) and have direct knowledge of some of the background behind these products. I don't believe these medications cause problems with labyrinth fishes or pencilfishes.

To clear up a couple of minor points first:

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedevil View Post
I had been treating with melafix from work( concentrated version)
There is not actually such a thing as a concentrated Melafix treatment in freshwaterautolinker.com autolinking image. When used according to directions they are all the same concentration in the tank water. Some are more or less concentrated in the bottle to make dosing easier.

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Originally Posted by Chickadee View Post
they do need to breathe air and it is the one type of fish that can actually drown if they cannot get to a surface that is free of a slick
Melafix/Pimafix do not cause a slick at the surface. If you use these treatments you can see that they don't (although they can cause some foaming). They are specially processed with emulsifiers so that they mix with the aquarium water. They also do not lower oxygen levels in the water; this was investigated during development using oxygen probes. (Although I can't clearly understand why people feel a slick would damage the labyrinth organ anyway, seeing as the fish breathes the air above the tank, and not the actual water).

Mars Fishcare (API) spent years developing and testing Melafix and Pimafix (Melafix alone spent 6-7 years being tested and refined). During that time they were extensively tested on labyrinth fishes (Bettas and multiple species of gourami) and also on pencilfishes. They were tested in bare-bottom tanks and 'traditional' established tanks, on wild fish and aquarium strains, and in the case of the pencilfishes at least, pencilfish hobbyists were recruited to help test. Samples of the medication were sent out to them to add to their own tanks with their pencilfishes, just in case there was some unknown factor that was different about the testing facilities at API compared to hobbyists' tanks at home. None of these tests showed any problems with Melafix or Pimafix for either labyrinth fishes or pencilfishes.

When a fish is being treated with a medication, it is because it is unwell in some way (obviously). Therefore, if a fish dies while being treated with Melafix/Pimafix, it is likely to be the original illness that caused the death, rather than the medication. This can even apply if other fishes, which did not appear to be sick and are not the targets of the medication, die during treatment whatever caused the problem in the first place will have potentially affected and damaged all the fishes in the tank. (Particularly as most problems are caused by poor water quality, which can occur some time before symptoms are noticed). Fishes can also die for no apparent reason, as we are all aware. If this happens after a medication has been added to the tank the owner naturally assumes the medication was to blame, when if it hadn't been added, the death would have been written off as "one of those things".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickadee View Post
Some fish die with the first use and others later on
It's clear here for example that Chickadee blames the Melafix no matter when the fish dies. (Sorry, Chickadee, not getting at you personally!). Although this is understandable, it is not scientific.

I think it is important to point out that there is no evidence that Melafix or Pimafix harm either labyrinth fishes or pencilfishes other than these reports circulating on the internet. Mars Fishcare (API) on the other hand, have lots of good evidence that indicates that they don't. It is also important to point out that huge numbers of hobbyists use these products around the globe, so any genuine problems would most likely show up very quickly and be well-known.

Consultant, Mars Fishcare.
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-06-2009, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

While I respect your knowledge and understand the need to protect the reputation of the products, I must respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions. I am neither an alarmist nor do I bear any ill will to your products. They have and I am sure will continue to provide miracle cures for a lot of fish, but this is not based on MY own experiences alone nor on the experiences of fish hobbyists on one forum alone. It is based on the experiences of a lot of fish hobbyists who started seeing the problems and got together and discussed the similarities of the problems they were having. If the problems the fish were experiencing prior to the use of the product were even similar I could perhaps agree with you but the only similarity seemed to be the use of the products and the type of deaths we were seeing. (convulsions, panic, and other symptoms shared by the fish) The problems they were being treated for would not have caused this reaction in them.

So while some may and certainly have always had the option of using these products on the fish and I believe I made this clear, I will continue to err on the side of caution and not do so.

It does remain every fish hobbyists right and priviledge to do as they will but I consider it my responsibility to put forth my experiences as they happened and to bring out the things that I have learned through dealing with others who have had similar or even worse experiences. I could not in all good conscience do otherwise.

I have said and will continue to tell anyone who asks that Melafix and Pimafix are wonderful medications for the right situation. I just do not happen to believe that situation is with Labyrinth organ fishes.

Rose
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 11:52 PM
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

I have used melafix in two of my tanks so far and my experience was it is not for use with a blue gourami. It had no prior illness to treatment for a new fish but became quite ill until i did a 50% water change and after 2 days, it was fine again. I have also used it on a red tetra and it is doing quite well now after an instance of fin rot. FYI...
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 04:37 AM
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

So what is the alternative to use for labyrinth fish ?i have lost almost half my fishes and they typically seem to go in pairs. I did try different medicines and when the infection appears on the fish, it is as good as gone. Having said that, the 3-4 in gorami i had, appeared to have fought the very rapidly spreading scars on its body, before it succumbed. I was using melafix. This guy was the lone survivor of inadvertent chlorine contamination in water, feel pretty sad to lose him.

Last edited by sivakv; 04-05-2011 at 04:56 AM. Reason: additional information
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-06-2011, 08:45 PM
 
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

I just thought I would post and let it be known...

I was forced to use Melafix to heal my Blue Gourami (even after reading this thread a few weeks prior). I was worried as I have 2 other gourami in the tank, but I followed directions as it showed on the label and a week later none of my gourami show signs of stress, illness or weakness. My blue gourami had two bad open wounds, both have healed and it doesnt look like she was ever effected by it (the wounds or the medication).

The label also does not say anything about labyrinth organed fish and has a statement that says it is proven safe for ALL freshwaterautolinker.com autolinking image fish.

Not to shoot down this "rose" fella, but if you have a sick or ill gourami do not fear this product.
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-06-2011, 10:59 PM
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Re: The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!

I have used it on one of my bettas and a gourami I had once,and both died.They stayed near the top,gasping for air.The color of the fishes went very pale and the fins melted off.Ill never use it again.i use the bettaautolinker.com autolinking image fix on the bettaautolinker.com autolinking image and melafix on the gourami.For both fish to be effected the same way,when they were both treated at different times,in different tanks with these meds,that tells me something is not right.

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