Price range of making a nano reef. - Page 5 - Aquarium Forum
Nano Reef Forum A nano reef is a reef in a small tank. This subforum is for discussions about nanoreefs, how to build a nanoreef, what equipment people are using, techniques, and tricks to maintaining a nanoreef.

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post #81 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Thank you Goby. I appreciate your opinion, I hope this light is really good. I can not afford any mistakes AT ALL. If this light is not what it is. I am done. Simple as that. I am highly! highly! Dependent on people here. That might be my problem. But that is that. That is why I am glad I joined the ARC. For other opinions.
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post #82 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 03:33 AM
 
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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Originally Posted by Jaybird5 View Post
Thank you Goby. I appreciate your opinion, I hope this light is really good. I can not afford any mistakes AT ALL. If this light is not what it is. I am done. Simple as that. I am highly! highly! Dependent on people here. That might be my problem. But that is that. That is why I am glad I joined the ARC. For other opinions.
This guy has some nice pieces that are currently going for a reasonable price on ebay. He has another auction going with a single rock that would work nicely with his other 3 pieces. If I was building a 10 gallon tank, I wouldn't buy the rock in bulk sight unseen. Your space is so limited. You may want to consider purchasing rocks individually...ones with unique shape, with holes and dimension for the fish to play and hide in.


Rock Aquarium Fish Tank Marine Reef saltautolinker.com autolinking image Water Sea Life Rock Sand Rock Reptile | eBay


I haven't been able to find the guy I bought my rock from...on eBay that is. I'll have to look through my receipts...his prices were so reasonable and I know he has a website.
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post #83 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 11:37 AM
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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RM, quarantining new corals is just one of the many reasons I've used quarantine tanks...and it's not even the main reason. I keep one quarantine tank up and running and have the ability to keep up to 4. I also have a 2.5 gallon for both quarantine and hospital use. I’ve learned the hard way to dip and quarantine everything for up to 2 months…especially coral. I'd put an unquarantined fish directly into my display before I'd put in a new coral...and more often than not I do depending on the relationship I have with the person I bought the fish from. The benefits of quarantining corals can be found in countless reputable publications. I'd be happy to share some if you're sincerely interested. Do you know of any literature that advocates against or teaches the benefits of not quarantining corals? If so, I'd sincerely like to read it. I value information; especially information opposite of what I've come to believe is true. My mind is always open. So…


If you’re not into using a QT tank RM, I respect that. That’s your business. However…to not just suggest, but actually proclaim that it’s wrong for me to utilize QT tanks with corals, is respectfully IMO, unintelligible. That said,


While there's not a doubt in my mind that you've helped numerous reef hobbyists, myself included...sometimes your responses seem more like unprovoked vexing than sincere assistance. And not just to me, but to others too. And not just in this forum, but in the other forums you participate in as well. With that, speaking for myself only, I'd like you to either respond to my posts with sincere helpful input, or not at all. Jaybird was inquiring about LED lighting. I shared with Jaybird, my personal experience with a particular EVO light. The experience was mine, and it was accurate. Why you felt the need to imply I was giving false information, is puzzling. I've been sincerely sharing my own personal experiences in this forum with the sole purpose of helping and learning from others, long enough to deserve better than that, from you.

You've not enough experience, and to much reading of garbage. You've had a tank up and running for what, a year?? Hmmm. And your advising on experience on QT tanks, and Lighting?? You don't have any experience in these fields, other than what you have read.
And some of the crap that you have read doesn't fly or is crazy and overboard.
So, riddle me this:
If you've dipped your corals accordingly, the BUGS are gone, and Qting them is flat out not needed. Now, if you want to do it, go for it, but its not necessary, and also un-needed.
Now onto LED lighting. You really need to do more reading on this subject, being as you have no experience with them. Corals do not need any white lighting, blue penetrates the water deeper and stronger than whites, the whites at the LED level are not necessary, only as a coloring thing for the aquarist. Same with using Reds, that light scatters as soon as it hits the water surface. Using LEDs with Blues and Navy Blues, mostly, and a few whites, both cool and warm, for coloring. A good unit will have those plus reds and greens. Read more, alot more. Hands on imo would be better as you actually get to see what happens instead of guessing off of information you've gleamed off of a Site.

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post #84 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 04:28 PM
 
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Post Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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You've not enough experience, and to much reading of garbage. You've had a tank up and running for what, a year?? Hmmm. And your advising on experience on QT tanks, and Lighting?? You don't have any experience in these fields, other than what you have read.
And some of the crap that you have read doesn't fly or is crazy and overboard.
So, riddle me this:
If you've dipped your corals accordingly, the BUGS are gone, and Qting them is flat out not needed. Now, if you want to do it, go for it, but its not necessary, and also un-needed.
Now onto LED lighting. You really need to do more reading on this subject, being as you have no experience with them. Corals do not need any white lighting, blue penetrates the water deeper and stronger than whites, the whites at the LED level are not necessary, only as a coloring thing for the aquarist. Same with using Reds, that light scatters as soon as it hits the water surface. Using LEDs with Blues and Navy Blues, mostly, and a few whites, both cool and warm, for coloring. A good unit will have those plus reds and greens. Read more, alot more. Hands on imo would be better as you actually get to see what
happens instead of guessing off of information you've gleamed off of a Site.


You have no idea where I'm currently at in the SW hobby...if you did, you'd despise me even more. I wish I could share...but I just can't. It's safe to say though, that judging by the looks of your fish tank...I lapped you about 18 months ago.

Respectfully RM, this is typical of the bullying behavior that has gotten you banned from participating in this forum and the other aquatic forums that I frequent...some of them you've been banned from permanently...some twice. You're peeved because I shared with someone, my personal experience with an EVO light. Do you honestly not get how inappropriate that is? Let's be real...your "reef" is barely more than a crowded fowler tank of tangs. IMO, the advice you give on these forums is hasty and poorly thought out when it isn't flat out wrong. The accurate information you provide is usually a Google click away...word for word. Can you honestly not see that the behavior you are accusing me of...is in fact yours? You are considered to be a known fraud the other SW forums I post in...how you've managed to keep things going here, is beyond me.

Enough is enough...I'm not going to address this with you beyond this post. I don't come here to bicker with others. I am comfortable with everything I've shared in this forum...each post was a sincere effort by me to help someone succeed based on my personal experiences. If you find that threatening, as I started before...feel free to not respond to me directly.
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post #85 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 05:29 PM
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Banning aye. I chose to leave the one site that I was having issues with, the idiot mod on a Site don't know squat about water quality, and didn't care to learn. And now the SW side of that Site went to SHT in a hand basket. I see all kinds of NO ONE POSTING NOW! Other than that, I haven't the faintest idea what the hell you are talking about, so please do share your great knowledge with the crew here.
You haven't lapped anybody on anything. Your wealth of knowledge is less than a YEAR. My tank is full of FISH because thats what I choose to put in there. o.O I have a few corals because that is also what I chose to put in there........
I see you did not mention the facts that I did point out on here, no knowledge about LEDs and no knowledge about anything else, because you don't in fact have any!
No your right, you don't have to entertain this conversation any longer, its time to put up or shut up, and being as you don't have a leg to stand on, we all know where you stand.
I can however post the SITES in which i am a MODERATOR! And must be a horrible one at that.................
Good luck, with your endeavors. Hope GOOGLE treats you well, because your head is so full of garbage right now, stuff your never going to need, QTing Corals.. Have fun with all that.......Its what you choose to do with your tank, but be aware, when this half cocked crap comes up, your damn right im going to question it! Don't care if you like being questioned. Come up some better answers.

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post #86 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 07:06 PM
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

and wow!
Those probly weren't helpful huh Jay?
Sometimes fish eat fish,probly not helpful either,but possibly an explanation!



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post #87 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 07:31 PM
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.


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post #88 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 06:37 AM
 
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Jaybird,

I wanted to share this website with you...wetwebmedia...it's my absolute favorite. It's much more than a website. Bob Fenner is an icon in the aquarium world and this site is a reflection of his life's work. I've met him personally and have attended a number of his speaking events, most recently this past March. That said, I've pasted a link below that contains information about why a predominantly actinic light fixture can't sustain photosynthetic marine life. The site discusses how a few actinics are nice to have...how they make corals look super cool, especially corals with fluorescent properties...how actinics make corals "POP". But more importantly, it explains how daylight white 10,000+K bulbs already contain adequate blue spectrum, as well as the other color spectrums that corals absolutely require.

The link below will take you to a question and answer forum, where aquarists are asking questions via email about actinic/blue lighting and either Bob Fenner himself or one of his expert staff aquarists respond. Their responses to the questions are found in brackets like this><..IMO, it's not a super user friendly format but I'm used to it...it takes some getting used to. Many of Bob Fenners "crew members" are biologists, divers etc.


ActinicFAQs

Here is just one example of a response Bob Fenner gave on actinic reef lighting, just this past March. There are dozens more very similar...some with some very interesting points of view. I encourage you to look through them.

Actinic light output 3/10/13

Hey guys,

Question: I don't own a PAR meter or anything else that can measure light/lumen output so I was wondering if someone can tell me, how much usable light/PAR/lumen an actinic bulb produces, "ballpark" percentage wise, compared to it's daylight counterpart of the same wattage.


Response: [Most all useful (photosynthetic, PAR/PUR) light/photonic energy is in the green to red end of spectral range. Answer for actinics, is that depending on the bulb, very little usable light is produced by actinics... they're mainly for looks. Some are intended to produce "fluorescence", the re-release of light in other spectra... but this too is non functional in terms of photosynthesis.]

Reading the FAQ's, I see that actinics are mostly for aesthetics and don't provide great benefits to coral however, when my actinics come on in the morning all my coral do open up, so they are obviously receiving some level of light from the actinics. Thanks, Art.

[Welcome. Bob Fenner]

In closing, I have 2 LED panels on my main tank that were customized by a guy who’s been doing SW for about 15 years. I researched LED lighting for months before I settled on his color configuration…and he can contest to that. He taught me a lot. If you’d like, I’d be happy to send you his contact information…there’s not a doubt in my mind that he’d be willing to share his knowledge.
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post #89 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 11:25 AM
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Hmmm. Again, you have skirted all the talk, are you on the Obama Staff??
Where, and in what Post did anyone, ANYONE use the term ACTINICS?
....................NO WHERE BY NO ONE!
If you really want me to shut you up, I CAN!
I can give you SITE, names, tank sizes, whatever you like, and the BLUE LED LIGHTING they are using ONLY, on their tanks......Your better off, like you stated, leaving this one alone.........
Nice try by the way.
I believe my statement was a 2:1 Blue to White, or mostly blues and a couple whites based on the unit.
Do yourself a favor, I know you know how to GOOGLE, thats where all your experience comes from. SO GO FIND IT!

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post #90 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 12:47 PM
 
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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Originally Posted by Reefing Madness View Post
Hmmm. Again, you have skirted all the talk, are you on the Obama Staff??
Where, and in what Post did anyone, ANYONE use the term ACTINICS?
....................NO WHERE BY NO ONE!
If you really want me to shut you up, I CAN!
I can give you SITE, names, tank sizes, whatever you like, and the BLUE LED LIGHTING they are using ONLY, on their tanks......Your better off, like you stated, leaving this one alone.........
Nice try by the way.
I believe my statement was a 2:1 Blue to White, or mostly blues and a couple whites based on the unit.
Do yourself a favor, I know you know how to GOOGLE, thats where all your experience comes from. SO GO FIND IT!
Beamswork 1300 LED Light 17" 21"inch 45 55cm Coral Reef Marine Planted Aquarium | eBay

This is the light you recommended RM. Clearly, you advised Jaybird to order the actinic modification, and you did so at least twice. CB made several references to the actinic bulbs...not as a recommendation but simply as a clarification. That said, the light you recommended will not support photosynthetic marine life. Hopefully Jaybird didn't order that light. If he did, considering his honestly about his age, budget, and family situation, I hope you will take responsibility and financially assist him with purchasing something more appropriate...perhaps the unmodified version of that fixture. At the very least, you could purchase the fixture from him.

Jaybird, if RM doesn’t stand behind his words, I will buy that fixture from you so you can buy something else. I will pay the cost of shipping. All I ask is that someday you do something kind for someone else getting started in this confusing hobby.


07-21-2013, 08:11 PM
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My bad, i was posting a Fennix light, a light that was usable in the Kelvin range. No, you don't have to use that light by any means. So we just want a 20" LED light for around ??
Ok, this is all I got left. Ya gotta ask for the Blue Actinics one when you order, if you go with this one.
Beamswork 1300 LED Light 17" 21"inch 45 55cm Coral Reef Marine Planted Aquarium | eBay
(We also have 1Wx [email protected] actinic blue 460nm and 1w x [email protected] 10000K day light, please contact us!!!)
____________________________________________________________

07-22-2013, 04:16 PM
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Beamswork 1300 LED Light 17" 21"inch 45 55cm Coral Reef Marine Planted Aquarium | eBay
Lights are both blue(actinic) and white.You can switch from just blue to both I believe.
____________________________________________________________

07-22-2013, 05:55 PM
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No, the linked one has blue, but is not dominant blue. I was just pointing out that you could get the unit with moslty blues also. Which is the one that I woukd buy myself if I we're looking.
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.



Your definately on the Obama who done it list....

I give up. Your on the Ignore list............

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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

OK I've been dragged in by my own words and a quote!I believe I spoke incorrectly when I said actinic as there appear to be(for millionaires)actinic lighting in led,BUT very few BLUE LEDS ARE TRULY ACTINIC.
That being said I don't believe many of the lights "us common people" get are actinic LEDS.They are merely blue lights(which has no effect on color{temp) but also does not make them the proper wavelength to be actinic.
I'll offer this link(and I.m sure RM already knows what it says).
blue LED vs true actinic - The Reef Tank
I'll add that actinic light does in fact promote zooanthae algae(spelling?) which iis what most photosynthetic corals live on.
Further I'll note from my own experience that my 20K metal halides were the bluest "white " light I have ever owned.
The higher the the temp(K) the more blue there is in light.(maybe just blue not actinic hard time saying not knowing).




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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Blue light in general does play a role in photosynthesis of zooxanthellae algae. But kelvin bulbs, for example metal halide, already have more than enough of the blue spectrum. Kelvins are multiple spectrum bulbs that contain all the colors that coral need...in addition to blue. To suggest to someone that it's appropriate to exchange the majority of their full spectrum kelvin bulbs with single spectrum actinic/blue bulbs...is bad advice. When a reef fixture is manufactured with extra blue bulbs, the purpose of those bulbs is for visual appeal...not to support the needs of marine life. That need will be met with the Kelvin bulbs.

Definition of ACTINIC
: of, relating to, resulting from, or exhibiting chemical changes produced by radiant energy especially in the visible and ultraviolet parts of the spectrum


Within the reef lighting industry, the word 'actinic' is used to refer to chemical changes within the light spectrum that can be seen with the human eye. Those visually appealing, aka "cool" effects are seen by us, in the blue/violet spectrums. The manufacturer of this light happens to call their blue bulbs "actinic", but they could have simply called those bulbs "blue"...it wouldn't have mattered. Either way, they are a single spectrum bulb and their purpose is for visual appeal only. That's why there's only 3 of them. So unless we're talking about the lighting needs of deep sea corals...the purpose of offering a fixture with 15 blue bulbs, instead of 3, is for enhanced visual effect only.
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Coral can and do adapt to a change in light intensity and Spectrum. We like to use the term “Able To Use” when referring to the grow spectrum. This is between 400-500nm. Based on intensity, spectrum and cost, we have found the Cree XT-E Royal Blue the best grow light for the money. At 450nm this straddles the center of the greatest photosynthetic efficiency range. This opinion based on our practicable experience growing Corals. We will address this throughout this article
LEDs For The Reef Tank - Reef LED Lights

Feature Article: Light in the Reef Aquaria — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog


Here Goby I did your homework for you. What is the prevailaint opinion on LED Blue to White Ratio?
https://www.google.com/search?q=what...client=firefox


Now GO AWAY!

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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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Coral can and do adapt to a change in light intensity and Spectrum. We like to use the term “Able To Use” when referring to the grow spectrum. This is between 400-500nm. Based on intensity, spectrum and cost, we have found the Cree XT-E Royal Blue the best grow light for the money. At 450nm this straddles the center of the greatest photosynthetic efficiency range. This opinion based on our practicable experience growing Corals. We will address this throughout this article
LEDs For The Reef Tank - Reef LED Lights

Feature Article: Light in the Reef Aquaria — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog


Here Goby I did your homework for you. What is the prevailaint opinion on LED Blue to White Ratio?
https://www.google.com/search?q=what...client=firefox


Now GO AWAY!
I have no choice but to go away as I'm needed in ER. I appreciate the articles you pasted though...sincerely. I'm here to share and learn, not bicker. I'll glance through what you sent over the next 48 hours when I'm trying to sleep between short shifts, but can't. I'd love nothing more than to learn that Jaybirds light will work for him.

I did skim through what you sent and while this is by no means by final verdict, it appears that this company has a 1blue to 1white ratio on their 10,000K lights...which is about what I have on mine too and I love it. I believe their bulbs are 3 watt Cree? As are mine. If my memory serves me, the light you recommended to Jaybird has a 18 single watt bulbs with a 5blue to 1white ratio...similar energy- either 10 or 12K white, I can't remember. That's an inappropriate ratio for standard reef keeping practice. I've never argued that the blue spectrum isn't needed or easily utilized by coral...but they need more than blue and I don't believe 3-single watt white LEDS can cut it. 15-single watts of blue LED, as you've implied...definitely not. I think I have 240 watts over my tank...I can't remember for sure, not that that matters I guess. As of now, I still strongly believe Jaybird should have stuck with the 15 single watt full spectrum bulbs and 3 blue bulbs. And please understand that I discussed this topic with 2 LED experts yesterday and today, so I'm not making these claims lightly. I wouldn't do that considering Jaybirds age and situation and your passion on the topic. I'm honestly trying to help him and on a side note...when I shared my experience with Jaybird, about the EVO Quad Clip lights I have...I wasn't even aware that you had already recommended a LED light, which ironically, I learned is actually made by the same company or a sister company of the light you recommended. How crazy is that? I was just told that today but haven't confirmed it...just found it ironic. I also think that information put things into perspective for me...a little...sorta calming. With that, I glanced through the forum you pasted too and still, I don't see anything that would change my mind. I will try to find something though...as I said, I appreciate the information. I learn something new every day and my mind is always open.

My hair is wet and I'm in a towel and I literally just my name over the loudspeaker a few minutes ago and I think my scrubs are dry. I gotta go. Have a nice weekend.

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post #96 of 101 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 11:35 PM
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Ok lets keep this civil not a match on whose right or wrong. All anyone can do is give opinions on their experience, and that is what this forum is all about. Both reef and goby gave good info for the op but its starting to get lost in the pissing battle on whose right or wrong.

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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

Alright thought I would say the light has arrived and it looks lovely! Now we can start My plan is to purchase dry rock from bulk reef supply. And a member I met on the Atlanta Reef Club will give me a piece of her live rock to start my cycle.
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post #99 of 101 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 11:35 AM
 
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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Originally Posted by coralbandit View Post
20" LED Aquarium Light | eBay the first light(the evo) looks like a good led(3 watts,with actinic).
Hydor Koralia Nano Evolution 240 GPH Wavemaker Pump | eBay hydors are good circulators.I think this 240 is the smallest.

Agreed on the evo, Thanks coral....My father has a jbj 3 gal picotope which is saltwaterautolinker.com autolinking image...I passed on the link on to him. Im also thinking about buying this light as a night light and xtra lighting during the day. Not sure yet. But Nice links!

*SALTWATER*
Come to the darkside!
*Jbj 30 gal rimless salterwater aqurium*
*15lbs dry rock, 7 lbs of live rock* (SEEDING)
*20lbs of live sand*
*True Lumen Pro 24" marine combo(14k white and actinic blue LED LIGHT)*

*1 yellow watchman Goby, 1 baby blue tang, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Coral bandit shrimp, 1 emerald crab, 1 brittle star fish, 3 red legged hermit crabs, 5 Astrea snails, 1 Nassarius snail, Yellow polyps, Green star Polyps, Pulsating xenia, Green Zooanthids
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post #100 of 101 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 11:40 AM
 
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Location: Charleston, Sc
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Re: Price range of making a nano reef.

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Originally Posted by Jaybird5 View Post
Alright thought I would say the light has arrived and it looks lovely! Now we can start My plan is to purchase dry rock from bulk reef supply. And a member I met on the Atlanta Reef Club will give me a piece of her live rock to start my cycle.
Jaybird, I bought my dryrock from reefcleaners.org from a guy named john, Hes great and if you tell him what kinda pieces you are looking for(in the note section), he works with you. You can also choose to Waive the signature for the package but make sure to note it in the notes area as well. They have a special going on for dry rock 15lbs for 38 bucks and 30 lbs for 63 bucks.

Heres what my dry rock looks like(I got the 15lb package) and shipping was fast....Just an Idea!

*SALTWATER*
Come to the darkside!
*Jbj 30 gal rimless salterwater aqurium*
*15lbs dry rock, 7 lbs of live rock* (SEEDING)
*20lbs of live sand*
*True Lumen Pro 24" marine combo(14k white and actinic blue LED LIGHT)*

*1 yellow watchman Goby, 1 baby blue tang, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Coral bandit shrimp, 1 emerald crab, 1 brittle star fish, 3 red legged hermit crabs, 5 Astrea snails, 1 Nassarius snail, Yellow polyps, Green star Polyps, Pulsating xenia, Green Zooanthids
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