odd clownfish behavior

jbhillman · 10-15-2011, 12:33 PM

I added four clowns to my tank one week ago. All are doing well and eating well. Yesterday one of them developed an odd pattern of behavior.
I have seen the clowns swim next to each other and vibrate. I think this is a type of pairing behavior. One of the clowns has isolated himself from the group and moved to the top corner of the tank opposite end of the powerhead. He swims there on his side and occasionally vibrates as if he is trying to pair with his reflection. If another of the clownfish come close he will chase it off and return to the corner. If I turn out the light, and during the night when the lights are off, he leaves the corner and swims around among the rocks. When feeding, he is just as vigorous as the other clowns when chasing the food.
His color is good and he doesn't seem to be in distress. I see no spots, fungus, or anything that might indicate he is sick.
I think that because there is only one smaller clown in the tank and he is one of the three larger ones, he is looking for a mate and doesn't want to pair with any of the clowns already in the tank. Am I reading this behavior wrong.
Salinity 1.022
PH 8.0 (can't seem to get this to come up.)
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite .5 ppm (working on this to bring it back down. 10% water change
yesterday. 10% again later today.)
Nitrate 5ppm

75 gallon tank with 29 gallon sump. 90+ gallons circulating

1 small yellow tang
2 small yellowtailed blue damsels
4 medium ocellaris clownfish

Next time I get to Houston I plan to buy a couple of snails for algae control on the glass.

angelsdice159 · 10-15-2011, 01:41 PM

just keep a eye on the clown for now.keep us inform. but i think the yellow tang should be in a 125 or bigger. and the damsles are just plain mean. i kick mine out.lol ur salinity is a bit low too. what do u use to check ur salinity

Reefing Madness · 10-15-2011, 02:09 PM

He's not one for swimming with the others. He's staked out some territory and thats his now, thats where he will now hang out. Normal for a Clown.

jbhillman · 10-15-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsdice159

just keep a eye on the clown for now.keep us inform. but i think the yellow tang should be in a 125 or bigger. and the damsles are just plain mean. i kick mine out.lol ur salinity is a bit low too. what do u use to check ur salinity

The tang seems happy right now. He has set up his patrol and he is constantly on the move from one end of the tank to the other weaving in and out among the rocks.

The damsels are the smallest fish in the tank. So far they are behaving themselves.

the clowns are setting up territories and trying to pair. The guy that hangs out in the corner looks to be protecting that corner. He chases away anything that comes close. Even the damsels.

I use a Instant Ocean hydrometer. I have had my water tested with a refractometer at the LFS I bought my fish at. The hydrometer is within .001 of being right. It seems to measure just a little low. Working on bringing the salinity up to 1.023 with the water changes. I now know that 1 tablespoon of salt in four gallons will increase the salinity of my water by .001.
I am more concerned about the PH. It seems to want to stay right at 8.0 and I would rather it be 8.2.

Reefing Madness · 10-15-2011, 05:15 PM

Chemistry And The Aquarium: The Relationship Between Alkalinity And pH — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solutions To pH Problems — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

jbhillman · 10-15-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefing Madness

Chemistry And The Aquarium: The Relationship Between Alkalinity And pH — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solutions To pH Problems — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

From the second link. I may have found the problem. My home is quite well sealed. New doublepane windows, etc. I also cook with lp gas. I don't have any way to measure the carbon dioxide levels but I can open a window directly above the tank and see if that helps.
At least until the weather gets to cold for that.

Reefing Madness · 10-15-2011, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbhillman

From the second link. I may have found the problem. My home is quite well sealed. New doublepane windows, etc. I also cook with lp gas. I don't have any way to measure the carbon dioxide levels but I can open a window directly above the tank and see if that helps.
At least until the weather gets to cold for that.

Right on. Try blowing fans across the water surface also to get the gasses off the surface.

jbhillman · 10-16-2011, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefing Madness

Right on. Try blowing fans across the water surface also to get the gasses off the surface.

I'll try that and also I am opening windows and exterior doors to ventilate the house.

jbhillman · 10-16-2011, 06:03 PM

Got the nitrite back down to near zero. Ammonia is 0 and nitrate has dropped back to 5 ppm. PH is still holding at 8.0.
Getting frustrated with salinity. I think this hydrometer may be junk. Unless I am mistaken, as the water evaporates (1/2 gallon per day in my tank) the salinity should rise. Mine dropped .001 overnight so I think I need to by a refractometer. Yes ? No?
Posted video on youtube of my tank and the odd clown in particular. Tried posting it here but could not get it to upload. Search for it by my screen name texasfishguy. It is the only one there.

Reefing Madness · 10-16-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbhillman

Got the nitrite back down to near zero. Ammonia is 0 and nitrate has dropped back to 5 ppm. PH is still holding at 8.0.
Getting frustrated with salinity. I think this hydrometer may be junk. Unless I am mistaken, as the water evaporates (1/2 gallon per day in my tank) the salinity should rise. Mine dropped .001 overnight so I think I need to by a refractometer. Yes ? No?
Posted video on youtube of my tank and the odd clown in particular. Tried posting it here but could not get it to upload. Search for it by my screen name texasfishguy. It is the only one there.

Refractometer will definately get you more acurate readings.

jbhillman · 10-18-2011, 09:26 PM

Just an update. The clownfish is apparently sick. I just don't know why. He is now losing his orange color. Just turning lighter but I know this can't be a good thing. I don't see anything wrong with his condition compared to the others, except that he is turning lighter orange.
He is also losing some of his energy. Seems listless. Doesn't defend his corner. Now the other three clownfish are picking at him so I suspect they are trying to kill him. I have him in a makeshift quarantine box until I can get my 20 gallon freshwater hospital tank converted to saltwater. I should already have this done but I have two pregnant zebra danios and a couple of neon tetras that look like they might be pregnant. I was saving the tank for them.
Maybe he isn't getting the right kind of food? I am feeding freeze dried brine shrimp, Ocean Nutrition Formula One, and Ocean Nutrition Formula Two flakes. The other fish look fine.

EXCEPT the yellow tang. Twice I have seen clusters of small brown bumps. First near his dorsal fin, then later near his tail fin. They were gone within a few hours. Today I have not seen any problem. BTW, I thought tangs were herbivores. Mine likes brine shrimp, and the Formula One flakes. Doesn't seem to care much for the Formula Two flakes, but I notice that anything that settles on the bottom is gone by the next morning.

Any help with these problems would be appreciated. My saltwater fish book should be here in a few days. The first one I bought turned out to be pretty useless. Mostly a forum for the author to promote his own theories on how saltwater fish should be kept, but no really useful information. No specific details.

Reefing Madness · 10-18-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbhillman

Just an update. The clownfish is apparently sick. I just don't know why. He is now losing his orange color. Just turning lighter but I know this can't be a good thing. I don't see anything wrong with his condition compared to the others, except that he is turning lighter orange.
He is also losing some of his energy. Seems listless. Doesn't defend his corner. Now the other three clownfish are picking at him so I suspect they are trying to kill him. I have him in a makeshift quarantine box until I can get my 20 gallon freshwater hospital tank converted to saltwater. I should already have this done but I have two pregnant zebra danios and a couple of neon tetras that look like they might be pregnant. I was saving the tank for them.
Maybe he isn't getting the right kind of food? I am feeding freeze dried brine shrimp, Ocean Nutrition Formula One, and Ocean Nutrition Formula Two flakes. The other fish look fine.

EXCEPT the yellow tang. Twice I have seen clusters of small brown bumps. First near his dorsal fin, then later near his tail fin. They were gone within a few hours. Today I have not seen any problem. BTW, I thought tangs were herbivores. Mine likes brine shrimp, and the Formula One flakes. Doesn't seem to care much for the Formula Two flakes, but I notice that anything that settles on the bottom is gone by the next morning.

Any help with these problems would be appreciated. My saltwater fish book should be here in a few days. The first one I bought turned out to be pretty useless. Mostly a forum for the author to promote his own theories on how saltwater fish should be kept, but no really useful information. No specific details.

Once a fish thinks he's getting picked on, he gives up. Seen it time and time and again, I don't have a scientific answer for it, it jsut happens that way.
You should not feed flake food to your fish, its not very good. And the reason why its gone in the morning is because your clean up crew and Bristle Worms are doing their job. your fish should eat everyting in sight within 3 mins of you adding it to your tank, or your overfeeding. Try Mysis Shrimp instead of Brine, better for the fish. And yes, Tangs will eat it also. Try throwing in some Romaine Lettuce for him to munch on, what that.

jbhillman · 10-19-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefing Madness

Once a fish thinks he's getting picked on, he gives up. Seen it time and time and again, I don't have a scientific answer for it, it jsut happens that way.
You should not feed flake food to your fish, its not very good. And the reason why its gone in the morning is because your clean up crew and Bristle Worms are doing their job. your fish should eat everyting in sight within 3 mins of you adding it to your tank, or your overfeeding. Try Mysis Shrimp instead of Brine, better for the fish. And yes, Tangs will eat it also. Try throwing in some Romaine Lettuce for him to munch on, what that.

I don't have a cleanup crew yet, nor bristle worms. I guess I am doing this all backwards. The LFS (Aquarium World in Houston) said I didn't need a cleanup crew for a FOWLR tank. Said there would be nothing for them to eat and they would starve. Recommended only a couple of snails for algae but said to hold off on them also.

They also were the ones who sold me the food. I have read that you should only feed once per day. I have also read twice per day, and one place was recommending feeding three times per day. How often should I feed? I also have to turn off the sump pump to keep the food that floats from getting sucked into the overflow box. Leaves me wondering how I am going to feed them while on vacation. I thought I was going to use an automatic feeder like I do with my freshwater fish, but that isn't going to work.

About the clown. I can move him to the 20 gallon tank but he will be all alone. Should I also move one of the three that are left over with him. I don't know if they have been there long enough to pair.

Any idea what the spots are on the Tang? Some kind of parasite maybe, but why do the spots come and go?

Reefing Madness · 10-19-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbhillman

I don't have a cleanup crew yet, nor bristle worms. I guess I am doing this all backwards. The LFS (Aquarium World in Houston) said I didn't need a cleanup crew for a FOWLR tank. Said there would be nothing for them to eat and they would starve. Recommended only a couple of snails for algae but said to hold off on them also.

They also were the ones who sold me the food. I have read that you should only feed once per day. I have also read twice per day, and one place was recommending feeding three times per day. How often should I feed? I also have to turn off the sump pump to keep the food that floats from getting sucked into the overflow box. Leaves me wondering how I am going to feed them while on vacation. I thought I was going to use an automatic feeder like I do with my freshwater fish, but that isn't going to work.

About the clown. I can move him to the 20 gallon tank but he will be all alone. Should I also move one of the three that are left over with him. I don't know if they have been there long enough to pair.

Any idea what the spots are on the Tang? Some kind of parasite maybe, but why do the spots come and go?

Tangs are crazy, if you watch him long enough you'll probably note him swim by and either dive bomb the substrate or do the same thing to the rock. He's fine, if the marks come and go, then its just him rubbing.
The Clown I would put inthe QT himself.
You can feed twice a day, not much though, and I would not feed 3 times, really getting into the to much food thing. No bristle worms? When the lights go out, watch for a bit to see if the come out by the rocks. Tank to young yet? Perhaps. Need a clean up crew. Gotta have them, they will scavenge for you, snails hermits, great thing these guys are. Not to many at first. Few snails, few hermits should do ya.
As far as the sump and the food goes, well you can get away from the flake food thats a good start, the Mysis will float some, depending on your flow. But, depending on how long your gone, you could let them not eat for a few days. Some people feed once a week, some once in awhile.

jbhillman · 10-19-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefing Madness

Tangs are crazy, if you watch him long enough you'll probably note him swim by and either dive bomb the substrate or do the same thing to the rock. He's fine, if the marks come and go, then its just him rubbing.
The Clown I would put inthe QT himself.
You can feed twice a day, not much though, and I would not feed 3 times, really getting into the to much food thing. No bristle worms? When the lights go out, watch for a bit to see if the come out by the rocks. Tank to young yet? Perhaps. Need a clean up crew. Gotta have them, they will scavenge for you, snails hermits, great thing these guys are. Not to many at first. Few snails, few hermits should do ya.
As far as the sump and the food goes, well you can get away from the flake food thats a good start, the Mysis will float some, depending on your flow. But, depending on how long your gone, you could let them not eat for a few days. Some people feed once a week, some once in awhile.

I've seen the tang do the divebomb thing.
I'll get the snails and hermits. I'm going back to town this weekend. I'll do some research to find out what bristle worms look like then see if I have any. I do still have a few very small tube worms (featherdusters)
The only way I know of to quickly convert the freshwater tank to salt water is to drain it. Rinse everything in saltwater, then refill with water from display tank. I'll transfer a chunk of live rock from the display tank to the QT. Don't know how else to recover from the mistake of not setting up a QT tank from the start. I'll come up with something to build hiding places. I will also check the chemistry of the display tank before I transfer any water, but I just did a water change a couple of days ago so it should be fine. I also have to repair the hood light. I want to convert it to fluorescent. It is incandescent and doesn't work.

I'll also get some of the Mysis shrimp, and some of the frozen foods. I eat Romaine lettus myself so I have it in the refrigerator all the time anyway. I assume I will have to gradually switch them over to the different foods.

For the vacation, I'll be gone 7 days.

Reefing Madness · 10-19-2011, 08:36 PM

Dont' feed for a few days, then throw in the new food, they should go for it. The QT thing, well truth be known, I still don't use a QT tank, never have, never will.
Bristle Worms.
bristle worm pictures - Bing Images

jbhillman · 10-20-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefing Madness

Dont' feed for a few days, then throw in the new food, they should go for it. The QT thing, well truth be known, I still don't use a QT tank, never have, never will.
Bristle Worms.
bristle worm pictures - Bing Images

I converted the hood to use Compact fluorescent bulbs. Had to replace the original electrical fixture. Cheap stuff that quit working within a few weeks of purchase.
I setup the QT tank and filled it with saltwater from the display tank. When I moved the clownfish to it, he began swimming around normally and exploring the tank. If I got too close to the tank, he would hide in the rocks, but come back out when I backed off.
When I fed him, he ate normally. His color started improving within a few hours.
This morning the tank is cloudy. I tested the QT water and found this.
PH 7.4
Ammonia 0PPM
Nitrite 0PPM
Nitrate less than 5PPM
Temp 78

Display tank
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0PPM
Nitrite 0PPM
Nitrate 5PPM
Temp 78

I don't know what caused the difference in the PH. Two things possible.
Something in the tank is acidic?? Lack of proper gas exchange?? I don't have an airstone in the tank yet since I don't have an extra air pump. That I will get today.

I have noticed that the PH of my water supply is dropping. I am on a deep well. I think maybe the drought is affecting my water. I am in Texas.

Reefing Madness · 10-20-2011, 09:25 AM

jbhillman · 10-22-2011, 05:57 PM

QT tank is now as clear as the display tank. Got an airstone to help with circulation since a 10 gallon is too small for a powerhead. Clownfish in QT tank is looking better and his color is better but he is acting like he is lonely. Doesn't swim around much except when eating. Eats very well. I don't know if I should put him back in the display tank, or move one of the three in the display tank into the smaller tank. Maybe a 10 gallon isn't big enough for the clownfish? Still waiting on my saltwater book to be delivered. It has been a week since I ordered it.
Fish in the display tank are doing well, eating well and getting along with each other with very little aggression.

Reefing Madness · 10-22-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbhillman

QT tank is now as clear as the display tank. Got an airstone to help with circulation since a 10 gallon is too small for a powerhead. Clownfish in QT tank is looking better and his color is better but he is acting like he is lonely. Doesn't swim around much except when eating. Eats very well. I don't know if I should put him back in the display tank, or move one of the three in the display tank into the smaller tank. Maybe a 10 gallon isn't big enough for the clownfish? Still waiting on my saltwater book to be delivered. It has been a week since I ordered it.
Fish in the display tank are doing well, eating well and getting along with each other with very little aggression.

10g will do ya for a clown fish.

10-15-2011, 12:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
jbhillman jbhillman's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 148 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 7 Times Said "Thanks" 72 Times Was Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	odd clownfish behavior I added four clowns to my tank one week ago. All are doing well and eating well. Yesterday one of them developed an odd pattern of behavior. I have seen the clowns swim next to each other and vibrate. I think this is a type of pairing behavior. One of the clowns has isolated himself from the group and moved to the top corner of the tank opposite end of the powerhead. He swims there on his side and occasionally vibrates as if he is trying to pair with his reflection. If another of the clownfish come close he will chase it off and return to the corner. If I turn out the light, and during the night when the lights are off, he leaves the corner and swims around among the rocks. When feeding, he is just as vigorous as the other clowns when chasing the food. His color is good and he doesn't seem to be in distress. I see no spots, fungus, or anything that might indicate he is sick. I think that because there is only one smaller clown in the tank and he is one of the three larger ones, he is looking for a mate and doesn't want to pair with any of the clowns already in the tank. Am I reading this behavior wrong. Salinity 1.022 PH 8.0 (can't seem to get this to come up.) Ammonia 0 ppm Nitrite .5 ppm (working on this to bring it back down. 10% water change yesterday. 10% again later today.) Nitrate 5ppm 75 gallon tank with 29 gallon sump. 90+ gallons circulating 1 small yellow tang 2 small yellowtailed blue damsels 4 medium ocellaris clownfish Next time I get to Houston I plan to buy a couple of snails for algae control on the glass.

10-15-2011, 01:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
angelsdice159 angelsdice159's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 106 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1 Times Said "Thanks" 12 Times Was Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior just keep a eye on the clown for now.keep us inform. but i think the yellow tang should be in a 125 or bigger. and the damsles are just plain mean. i kick mine out.lol ur salinity is a bit low too. what do u use to check ur salinity __________________ 125g S.W becoming reef,.125g F.W,.37g S.W.

10-15-2011, 02:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
Reefing Madness 240g Mixed Reef Reefing Madness's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,663 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1,392 Times Said "Thanks" 39 Times Was Thanked 946 Times in 923 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior He's not one for swimming with the others. He's staked out some territory and thats his now, thats where he will now hang out. Normal for a Clown. __________________ http://s1050.photobucket.com/albums/...eefingMadness/

10-15-2011, 05:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
Reefing Madness 240g Mixed Reef Reefing Madness's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,663 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1,392 Times Said "Thanks" 39 Times Was Thanked 946 Times in 923 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior Chemistry And The Aquarium: The Relationship Between Alkalinity And pH — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solutions To pH Problems — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine __________________ http://s1050.photobucket.com/albums/...eefingMadness/

10-16-2011, 06:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
jbhillman jbhillman's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 148 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 7 Times Said "Thanks" 72 Times Was Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior Got the nitrite back down to near zero. Ammonia is 0 and nitrate has dropped back to 5 ppm. PH is still holding at 8.0. Getting frustrated with salinity. I think this hydrometer may be junk. Unless I am mistaken, as the water evaporates (1/2 gallon per day in my tank) the salinity should rise. Mine dropped .001 overnight so I think I need to by a refractometer. Yes ? No? Posted video on youtube of my tank and the odd clown in particular. Tried posting it here but could not get it to upload. Search for it by my screen name texasfishguy. It is the only one there.

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10-18-2011, 09:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
jbhillman jbhillman's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 148 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 7 Times Said "Thanks" 72 Times Was Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior Just an update. The clownfish is apparently sick. I just don't know why. He is now losing his orange color. Just turning lighter but I know this can't be a good thing. I don't see anything wrong with his condition compared to the others, except that he is turning lighter orange. He is also losing some of his energy. Seems listless. Doesn't defend his corner. Now the other three clownfish are picking at him so I suspect they are trying to kill him. I have him in a makeshift quarantine box until I can get my 20 gallon freshwater hospital tank converted to saltwater. I should already have this done but I have two pregnant zebra danios and a couple of neon tetras that look like they might be pregnant. I was saving the tank for them. Maybe he isn't getting the right kind of food? I am feeding freeze dried brine shrimp, Ocean Nutrition Formula One, and Ocean Nutrition Formula Two flakes. The other fish look fine. EXCEPT the yellow tang. Twice I have seen clusters of small brown bumps. First near his dorsal fin, then later near his tail fin. They were gone within a few hours. Today I have not seen any problem. BTW, I thought tangs were herbivores. Mine likes brine shrimp, and the Formula One flakes. Doesn't seem to care much for the Formula Two flakes, but I notice that anything that settles on the bottom is gone by the next morning. Any help with these problems would be appreciated. My saltwater fish book should be here in a few days. The first one I bought turned out to be pretty useless. Mostly a forum for the author to promote his own theories on how saltwater fish should be kept, but no really useful information. No specific details.

10-19-2011, 08:36 PM	#16 (permalink)
Reefing Madness 240g Mixed Reef Reefing Madness's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,663 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1,392 Times Said "Thanks" 39 Times Was Thanked 946 Times in 923 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior Dont' feed for a few days, then throw in the new food, they should go for it. The QT thing, well truth be known, I still don't use a QT tank, never have, never will. Bristle Worms. bristle worm pictures - Bing Images __________________ http://s1050.photobucket.com/albums/...eefingMadness/

10-20-2011, 09:25 AM	#18 (permalink)
Reefing Madness 240g Mixed Reef Reefing Madness's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,663 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1,392 Times Said "Thanks" 39 Times Was Thanked 946 Times in 923 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior Ouch __________________ http://s1050.photobucket.com/albums/...eefingMadness/

10-22-2011, 05:57 PM	#19 (permalink)
jbhillman jbhillman's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 148 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 7 Times Said "Thanks" 72 Times Was Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: odd clownfish behavior QT tank is now as clear as the display tank. Got an airstone to help with circulation since a 10 gallon is too small for a powerhead. Clownfish in QT tank is looking better and his color is better but he is acting like he is lonely. Doesn't swim around much except when eating. Eats very well. I don't know if I should put him back in the display tank, or move one of the three in the display tank into the smaller tank. Maybe a 10 gallon isn't big enough for the clownfish? Still waiting on my saltwater book to be delivered. It has been a week since I ordered it. Fish in the display tank are doing well, eating well and getting along with each other with very little aggression.

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