start cycling with fish or no fish

keziahamber · 07-18-2010, 12:14 PM

Some people recommend adding a couple fish to start the cycling process. My ph right now is 7.7 (just started yesterday, as posted in another thread) Do you recommend adding a small amount of fish? If so, what kind, and how many. Right now I have no fish and several large plants, and a few medium sized plants. I have a 35 gallon freshwater tank. I added Tetra Aqua Aquasafe that makes tap water safe for fish w/ bioextract.

gretchup · 07-19-2010, 12:06 PM

no fish cycling is the fastest and easiest. take out the plants, because they use up the ammonia before the bacteria can, causing your cycle to last much longer.

NursePlaty · 07-19-2010, 12:15 PM

When you cycle, pH doesnt matter. Up to you if you want to use fish or not. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages.

keziahamber · 07-19-2010, 02:01 PM

If I use fish, wish kind should I get?

gretchup · 07-19-2010, 02:10 PM

white clouds or zebra danios

A.J. · 07-19-2010, 02:14 PM

Most information I've read on cycling with fish suggest tiger barbs as well. Basically though I think you'll want a hardy fish that can adjust with the different changes the water will be going through.

longtail4711 · 07-19-2010, 02:31 PM

I personally am on the No Fish Cycling. I think it just saves a lot of hassle and money and goes faster. Plus it's not cruel to the fish and you're not stuck with fish you may not necessarily want.

If you really want to do cycling with fish, then I do recommend zebra danios if you're going to have a tropical tank, or the white cloud minnows if you are doing a cold-water tank. Both of them can handle the high alkaline water you have.

jrman83 · 07-20-2010, 09:47 AM

Cycling with fish just takes too long and it's tough to fight off the "want" to buy more fish.

NursePlaty · 07-20-2010, 11:40 AM

Also with fishless, you dont need to do all those water changes required to keep the ammonia and nitrites low. Depending on how much fish you get, determines how often the water changes, which is a hassel. With fishless, you just keep adding ammonia day after day, and one big water change at the end.

keziahamber · 07-21-2010, 09:58 PM

When will I know the cycle is complete? Should I do a water change before adding fish?

keziahamber · 07-21-2010, 10:00 PM

the water is turning a little cloudy, and i see a tiny bit of algae on the glass.

NursePlaty · 07-21-2010, 11:03 PM

Explain to us what you are doing lol. Are you doing with fish or no fish? Are you adding ammonia? You know when the cycle is complete once the readings are Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, and Nitrate (with readings, usually 50ppm-160ppm). So in order to test for these results you need to get a liquid test kit. Such as the API freshwater test kit. Also if assuming and guessing your are doing fishless. You need to keep the Ammonia at 5ppm or 6ppm all the way until the cycle is near completion. You taper off on the Ammonia near the end of the cycle. The tank isnt going to cycle within a week. Fishless cycling takes up to 2weeks-4weeks depending on what you are doing to help it. You reduce cycling time by "seeding" (adding used/old filter cartridges to the tank to introduce beneficial bacteria that breaks down ammonia+nitrite), increase temperature to 80F, and 7-8hrs photoperiod. If you cycle with fish, it will take longer, not to mention all the water changes every other day or every 2 days to keep nitrogen toxin levels low. Fishless allows toxins to build up high, which greatly increases food source for the bacteria, therefore cycling a lot faster. At the end of a fishless cycle, you do an 80%-90% water change from the water column only, no gravel suction, no filter change. Then add fish.

Heres a site that explains it in much more detail.
Fishless Cycling - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

keziahamber · 07-21-2010, 11:32 PM

NutraFin Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement
No Fish yet

NursePlaty · 07-22-2010, 02:16 AM

You need to add ammonia, or there will be no food for the bacteria.

jrman83 · 07-22-2010, 06:22 AM

Sounds like the cycle hasn't even started.

Bulleyhead · 07-22-2010, 10:52 AM

when i cycled my tanks i used the feeder goldfish because they are cheap and sacrificial in all means...they work out good and my tanks have all done fine afterwards...plus when im down with them i use them for food for my other tanks

NursePlaty · 07-22-2010, 11:17 AM

One bad thing about using feeders is because of the mass production or spawning as would call it, they overstock them in tanks. Which then causes disease and stress. And there might be a chance that you would introduce a type of disease or parasite into your aquarium.

07-18-2010, 12:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
keziahamber Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 53 Name: Jody Snowberger Wong Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 3 Times Said "Thanks" 31 Times Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	start cycling with fish or no fish Some people recommend adding a couple fish to start the cycling process. My ph right now is 7.7 (just started yesterday, as posted in another thread) Do you recommend adding a small amount of fish? If so, what kind, and how many. Right now I have no fish and several large plants, and a few medium sized plants. I have a 35 gallon freshwater tank. I added Tetra Aqua Aquasafe that makes tap water safe for fish w/ bioextract.

07-19-2010, 12:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
gretchup Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 45 Name: Gretchen Katrina Popp Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1 Times Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish no fish cycling is the fastest and easiest. take out the plants, because they use up the ammonia before the bacteria can, causing your cycle to last much longer.

07-19-2010, 12:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
NursePlaty Queen Platy NursePlaty's Photo Gallery Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 932 Name: Annie Pham Location: Dallas Ft Worth, Texas Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 266 Times Said "Thanks" 41 Times Was Thanked 186 Times in 180 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish When you cycle, pH doesnt matter. Up to you if you want to use fish or not. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. __________________ 55gallon Light - 6500K CFL, 23wattsx5 5hr/day Substrate - Red Mexican Clay, Sphagnum Peat moss, Eco-Complete Misc- Pressurized CO2, EI Dose KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM-B Plants -Limnophila Aromatica, Stargrass, Dwarf Hair Grass, Christmas Moss, Baby Tears (HM), Dwarf Baby Tears(HC), Rotala Rotundifolia, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Riccia Fluitans

07-19-2010, 02:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
keziahamber Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 53 Name: Jody Snowberger Wong Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 3 Times Said "Thanks" 31 Times Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish If I use fish, wish kind should I get?

07-19-2010, 02:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
gretchup Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 45 Name: Gretchen Katrina Popp Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1 Times Said "Thanks" 4 Times Was Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish white clouds or zebra danios

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07-19-2010, 02:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
A.J. A.J.'s Photo Gallery Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 57 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 6 Times Was Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish Most information I've read on cycling with fish suggest tiger barbs as well. Basically though I think you'll want a hardy fish that can adjust with the different changes the water will be going through.

07-19-2010, 02:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
longtail4711 longtail4711's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 128 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 16 Times Said "Thanks" 13 Times Was Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish I personally am on the No Fish Cycling. I think it just saves a lot of hassle and money and goes faster. Plus it's not cruel to the fish and you're not stuck with fish you may not necessarily want. If you really want to do cycling with fish, then I do recommend zebra danios if you're going to have a tropical tank, or the white cloud minnows if you are doing a cold-water tank. Both of them can handle the high alkaline water you have.

07-20-2010, 09:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
jrman83 ....has no life.... jrman83's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,468 Name: Ben Location: White Plains, MD My location Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 3,396 Times Said "Thanks" 478 Times Was Thanked 2,431 Times in 2,286 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish Cycling with fish just takes too long and it's tough to fight off the "want" to buy more fish.

07-20-2010, 11:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
NursePlaty Queen Platy NursePlaty's Photo Gallery Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 932 Name: Annie Pham Location: Dallas Ft Worth, Texas Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 266 Times Said "Thanks" 41 Times Was Thanked 186 Times in 180 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish Also with fishless, you dont need to do all those water changes required to keep the ammonia and nitrites low. Depending on how much fish you get, determines how often the water changes, which is a hassel. With fishless, you just keep adding ammonia day after day, and one big water change at the end. __________________ 55gallon Light - 6500K CFL, 23wattsx5 5hr/day Substrate - Red Mexican Clay, Sphagnum Peat moss, Eco-Complete Misc- Pressurized CO2, EI Dose KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM-B Plants -Limnophila Aromatica, Stargrass, Dwarf Hair Grass, Christmas Moss, Baby Tears (HM), Dwarf Baby Tears(HC), Rotala Rotundifolia, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Riccia Fluitans

07-21-2010, 09:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
keziahamber Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 53 Name: Jody Snowberger Wong Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 3 Times Said "Thanks" 31 Times Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish When will I know the cycle is complete? Should I do a water change before adding fish?

07-21-2010, 10:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
keziahamber Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 53 Name: Jody Snowberger Wong Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 3 Times Said "Thanks" 31 Times Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish the water is turning a little cloudy, and i see a tiny bit of algae on the glass.

07-21-2010, 11:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
NursePlaty Queen Platy NursePlaty's Photo Gallery Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 932 Name: Annie Pham Location: Dallas Ft Worth, Texas Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 266 Times Said "Thanks" 41 Times Was Thanked 186 Times in 180 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish Explain to us what you are doing lol. Are you doing with fish or no fish? Are you adding ammonia? You know when the cycle is complete once the readings are Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, and Nitrate (with readings, usually 50ppm-160ppm). So in order to test for these results you need to get a liquid test kit. Such as the API freshwater test kit. Also if assuming and guessing your are doing fishless. You need to keep the Ammonia at 5ppm or 6ppm all the way until the cycle is near completion. You taper off on the Ammonia near the end of the cycle. The tank isnt going to cycle within a week. Fishless cycling takes up to 2weeks-4weeks depending on what you are doing to help it. You reduce cycling time by "seeding" (adding used/old filter cartridges to the tank to introduce beneficial bacteria that breaks down ammonia+nitrite), increase temperature to 80F, and 7-8hrs photoperiod. If you cycle with fish, it will take longer, not to mention all the water changes every other day or every 2 days to keep nitrogen toxin levels low. Fishless allows toxins to build up high, which greatly increases food source for the bacteria, therefore cycling a lot faster. At the end of a fishless cycle, you do an 80%-90% water change from the water column only, no gravel suction, no filter change. Then add fish. Heres a site that explains it in much more detail. Fishless Cycling - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish __________________ 55gallon Light - 6500K CFL, 23wattsx5 5hr/day Substrate - Red Mexican Clay, Sphagnum Peat moss, Eco-Complete Misc- Pressurized CO2, EI Dose KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM-B Plants -Limnophila Aromatica, Stargrass, Dwarf Hair Grass, Christmas Moss, Baby Tears (HM), Dwarf Baby Tears(HC), Rotala Rotundifolia, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Riccia Fluitans Last edited by NursePlaty : 07-22-2010 at 09:31 AM.

07-21-2010, 11:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
keziahamber Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 53 Name: Jody Snowberger Wong Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 3 Times Said "Thanks" 31 Times Was Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish NutraFin Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement No Fish yet

07-22-2010, 02:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
NursePlaty Queen Platy NursePlaty's Photo Gallery Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 932 Name: Annie Pham Location: Dallas Ft Worth, Texas Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 266 Times Said "Thanks" 41 Times Was Thanked 186 Times in 180 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish You need to add ammonia, or there will be no food for the bacteria. __________________ 55gallon Light - 6500K CFL, 23wattsx5 5hr/day Substrate - Red Mexican Clay, Sphagnum Peat moss, Eco-Complete Misc- Pressurized CO2, EI Dose KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM-B Plants -Limnophila Aromatica, Stargrass, Dwarf Hair Grass, Christmas Moss, Baby Tears (HM), Dwarf Baby Tears(HC), Rotala Rotundifolia, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Riccia Fluitans

07-22-2010, 06:22 AM	#15 (permalink)
jrman83 ....has no life.... jrman83's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,468 Name: Ben Location: White Plains, MD My location Feedback: 16 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 3,396 Times Said "Thanks" 478 Times Was Thanked 2,431 Times in 2,286 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish Sounds like the cycle hasn't even started.

07-22-2010, 10:52 AM	#16 (permalink)
Bulleyhead Bullheads Rock My Socks Bulleyhead's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 98 Name: Ryan Location: Amsterdam, NY Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1 Times Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish when i cycled my tanks i used the feeder goldfish because they are cheap and sacrificial in all means...they work out good and my tanks have all done fine afterwards...plus when im down with them i use them for food for my other tanks __________________ Bullheads represent the cookie monsters of the rivers around here...hungry, hungry, hungry

07-22-2010, 11:17 AM	#17 (permalink)
NursePlaty Queen Platy NursePlaty's Photo Gallery Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 932 Name: Annie Pham Location: Dallas Ft Worth, Texas Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 266 Times Said "Thanks" 41 Times Was Thanked 186 Times in 180 Posts	Re: start cycling with fish or no fish One bad thing about using feeders is because of the mass production or spawning as would call it, they overstock them in tanks. Which then causes disease and stress. And there might be a chance that you would introduce a type of disease or parasite into your aquarium. __________________ 55gallon Light - 6500K CFL, 23wattsx5 5hr/day Substrate - Red Mexican Clay, Sphagnum Peat moss, Eco-Complete Misc- Pressurized CO2, EI Dose KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM-B Plants -Limnophila Aromatica, Stargrass, Dwarf Hair Grass, Christmas Moss, Baby Tears (HM), Dwarf Baby Tears(HC), Rotala Rotundifolia, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Riccia Fluitans

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