Lighting

trouble93 · 09-06-2009, 10:37 AM

Does anybody know what the differences is between High Pressure Sodium lighting and Metal Halide?

MediaHound · 09-06-2009, 10:41 AM

The bulb manufacturers are producing MH bulbs tuned for the requirements of a reef tank.

drhank · 09-06-2009, 10:57 AM

High pressure sodium is great for lighting a warehouse or parking lot it's intended to move a lot of light a long distance.

trouble93 · 09-06-2009, 11:17 AM

The reason I asked I was looking at something and A guy said he used 1000w HPS but change the lamp base to m59 mogal and he lost me there.

MediaHound · 09-06-2009, 12:03 PM

Maybe he meant he used a ballast from an HPS system but changed the mogul (socket base) to accept a MH bulb.

trouble93 · 09-07-2009, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MediaHound

Maybe he meant he used a ballast from an HPS system but changed the mogul (socket base) to accept a MH bulb.

I didn't even know you could get a 1000w watt bulb let alone a 1000watt MH. I'm going to see if I can get a picture of that tank.

JIM · 09-07-2009, 08:46 AM

Metal Halide: is blue-orientated in the light spectrum. It is the best type of light to be used as a primary light source if little or no natural sunlight is available. This type of light promotes plant growth. and is available in 1000watt

HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM LAMPS - These lamps are red/orange in the spectrum. They are the best lamps available for secondary or supplementary lighting (used in conjunction with natural sunlight). This" type of light promotes flowering/budding in plants. It is ideal for Greenhouses/Commercial growing applications.

This information is per a lighting manufacturers description of the bulbs they sell

Paul B · 09-07-2009, 08:48 AM

The ballasts are also not interchangable so even if you change the socket to fit, the ballast is incorrect.

trouble93 · 09-07-2009, 03:01 PM

You know Paul that's what I was thinking. If I remember right it's like a 650gal. tank so I can see where the wattage would be needed. If you could just change the socket you wouldn't get the right light par. I thought a m59 would just fit that ballast it was made for.

Paul B · 09-07-2009, 04:09 PM

A sodium light needs a ballast for a sodium light and a MH lamp needs a MH ballast.
They are not interchangeable

AZDesertRat · 09-08-2009, 09:35 AM

There are some ballasts that can be used for both. Most are older cap and coil type ballasts though not the newer electronic type we see today.

You need to match the wattage of the ballast to the bulb wattage so unless you have some 1000 watt MH bulbs picked out I would look elsewhere.

trouble93 · 09-08-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B

A sodium light needs a ballast for a sodium light and a MH lamp needs a MH ballast.
They are not interchangeable

I guess that is my point.

trouble93 · 09-08-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZDesertRat

There are some ballasts that can be used for both. Most are older cap and coil type ballasts though not the newer electronic type we see today.

You need to match the wattage of the ballast to the bulb wattage so unless you have some 1000 watt MH bulbs picked out I would look elsewhere.

I don't think just matching the wattage would work.

AZDesertRat · 09-08-2009, 11:36 AM

As long as the ballast is designed for both MH and HPS you match the wattage and bulb style. They are out there and it does work.

trouble93 · 09-08-2009, 11:53 AM

I think we have gotten away from the OP I just wanted to know what the differents was. I had never heard of HS on a reef tank. To light a 650gal. tank would take some thinking out side the box. I guess it can be done.

AZDesertRat · 09-08-2009, 12:22 PM

Generally High Pressure Sodium bulbs will be in the yellow/red range, as low as 2000k in color. Metal Halide bulbs used in aquaium applications generally start out in the 6500k color range which require copious amounts of actinic supplementation then on to 10,000k which is still very yellow but starting to appear white, to 12,000-15,000k which can start to be on their own with more of the blue white we are used to see up through 20,000k which can appear very blue.

HPS and even the lower k MH bulbs make it look like someone peed in your tank, very yellow and downright ugly. I used 2x250w 10,000k MH for several years and supplemented them with 2x140w VHO super actinics to get nice coloration. The growth with 10k K bulbs like Ushio and XM is fantastic as the PAR is very high, the trade off is having to supplement actinic. I am now using 12,000 k Reeflux bulbs with no supplementation and the color is pretty good. I plan to try 15,000 next change to get a bit more pop out of the corals but the trade off will be slower growth.

Ushio and Iwasaki make bulbs that can be used in either ballast but they are more for hydroponics and greenhouses and still very low on the k or Kelvin scale so would be yellow/red in color.

trouble93 · 09-08-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZDesertRat

Generally High Pressure Sodium bulbs will be in the yellow/red range, as low as 2000k in color. Metal Halide bulbs used in aquaium applications generally start out in the 6500k color range which require copious amounts of actinic supplementation then on to 10,000k which is still very yellow but starting to appear white, to 12,000-15,000k which can start to be on their own with more of the blue white we are used to see up through 20,000k which can appear very blue.

HPS and even the lower k MH bulbs make it look like someone peed in your tank, very yellow and downright ugly. I used 2x250w 10,000k MH for several years and supplemented them with 2x140w VHO super actinics to get nice coloration. The growth with 10k K bulbs like Ushio and XM is fantastic as the PAR is very high, the trade off is having to supplement actinic. I am now using 12,000 k Reeflux bulbs with no supplementation and the color is pretty good. I plan to try 15,000 next change to get a bit more pop out of the corals but the trade off will be slower growth.

Ushio and Iwasaki make bulbs that can be used in either ballast but they are more for hydroponics and greenhouses and still very low on the k or Kelvin scale so would be yellow/red in color.

I understand this I use 400watt 20k XM's on my tank and I wouldn't change it for nothing. Where I got lost with the guy using HPS @ 1000watts IMO would be very ugly color wise. Part of my light cycle I have two 24watt 10k T5's kick on about an hour before my MH come on and it looks dull and yellowish. And that's at 10k anything lower Kelvin wise is color I wouldn't want to have. The only reason I use the T5 10k is because it's a growth bulb.

AZDesertRat · 09-08-2009, 02:51 PM

Way back when some of us first got started in reef tanks, myself the late 70's early 80's, we didn't have many bulb choices. My first bulbs were 6500k Ushios with normal output fluorescent Philips actinics for supplementation. The color of the Ushios and Iwasakis was really ugly but the growth was great. You look back on all the things you experimented with over the years and its a wonder some of it worked at all! I kept fantastic corals in a 20G high with only 4 normal output 18" fluorescent bulbs (two Vitalites and two Philips actinics) in the plastic undercounter type kitchen fixtures, no reflectors at all. I had monti caps and digitata growing like crazy along with a sebae anemone I still have to this day, 20 years later. People would cringe if you tried that today! And to top it off I used a modified Skilter 250 for both skimming and filtration with an old style Rio to boot. The Rio was later replaced with a Powersweep which was a real PITA. When I went from the NO fluorescents to 2x55w PCs the corals really woke up. Then the 150w MH was even better.....

trouble93 · 09-09-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZDesertRat

Way back when some of us first got started in reef tanks, myself the late 70's early 80's, we didn't have many bulb choices. My first bulbs were 6500k Ushios with normal output fluorescent Philips actinics for supplementation. The color of the Ushios and Iwasakis was really ugly but the growth was great. You look back on all the things you experimented with over the years and its a wonder some of it worked at all! I kept fantastic corals in a 20G high with only 4 normal output 18" fluorescent bulbs (two Vitalites and two Philips actinics) in the plastic undercounter type kitchen fixtures, no reflectors at all. I had monti caps and digitata growing like crazy along with a sebae anemone I still have to this day, 20 years later. People would cringe if you tried that today! And to top it off I used a modified Skilter 250 for both skimming and filtration with an old style Rio to boot. The Rio was later replaced with a Powersweep which was a real PITA. When I went from the NO fluorescents to 2x55w PCs the corals really woke up. Then the 150w MH was even better.....

If you think about it if are suppose to be keeping things a close to nature as possible. When it comes down to it it's mostly the guy who is tying to sell you something is the one telling what won't work and what will.

drhank · 09-09-2009, 08:17 AM

Rat's right on the money with this one. Many magnetic ballasts (M58, M59, etc) are also usable on HPS and vice versa. The HPS designation is different from the MH designation but you can cross reference and often use HPS ballasts for MH applications.

09-06-2009, 10:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
trouble93 it never ends trouble93's Photo Gallery Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 978 Name: James Location: Nelsonville,Ohio My location Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 24 Times Said "Thanks" 99 Times Was Thanked 157 Times in 143 Posts	Lighting Does anybody know what the differences is between High Pressure Sodium lighting and Metal Halide? __________________ If It Is To Be It's Up To Me!!! http://www.aquariumforum.com/vbgoogl...216796875&zoom

09-06-2009, 10:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
MediaHound Here, fishy, fishy, fishy MediaHound's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,103 Name: Jarred Location: Florida My location Feedback: 18 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 4,158 Times Said "Thanks" 2,133 Times Was Thanked 949 Times in 610 Posts	Re: Lighting The bulb manufacturers are producing MH bulbs tuned for the requirements of a reef tank.

09-06-2009, 10:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
drhank Saltwater Section Specialist drhank's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 411 Name: Doc Location: Crestview. FL My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 57 Times Said "Thanks" 18 Times Was Thanked 162 Times in 111 Posts	Re: Lighting High pressure sodium is great for lighting a warehouse or parking lot it's intended to move a lot of light a long distance. __________________ *Doc* Dr Hank's 200 gallon Reef Tank http://www.aquariumforum.com/f46/drhanks-tank-3440.html

09-06-2009, 11:17 AM	#4 (permalink)
trouble93 it never ends trouble93's Photo Gallery Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 978 Name: James Location: Nelsonville,Ohio My location Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 24 Times Said "Thanks" 99 Times Was Thanked 157 Times in 143 Posts	Re: Lighting The reason I asked I was looking at something and A guy said he used 1000w HPS but change the lamp base to m59 mogal and he lost me there. __________________ If It Is To Be It's Up To Me!!! http://www.aquariumforum.com/vbgoogl...216796875&zoom

09-06-2009, 12:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
MediaHound Here, fishy, fishy, fishy MediaHound's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,103 Name: Jarred Location: Florida My location Feedback: 18 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 4,158 Times Said "Thanks" 2,133 Times Was Thanked 949 Times in 610 Posts	Re: Lighting Maybe he meant he used a ballast from an HPS system but changed the mogul (socket base) to accept a MH bulb.

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09-07-2009, 08:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
JIM Banned JIM's Photo Gallery Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,136 My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 287 Times Said "Thanks" 2,045 Times Was Thanked 609 Times in 385 Posts	Re: Lighting Metal Halide: is blue-orientated in the light spectrum. It is the best type of light to be used as a primary light source if little or no natural sunlight is available. This type of light promotes plant growth. and is available in 1000watt HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM LAMPS - These lamps are red/orange in the spectrum. They are the best lamps available for secondary or supplementary lighting (used in conjunction with natural sunlight). This" type of light promotes flowering/budding in plants. It is ideal for Greenhouses/Commercial growing applications. This information is per a lighting manufacturers description of the bulbs they sell

09-07-2009, 08:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Paul B Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 433 Name: Paul B Location: Nassau NY Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 4 Times Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 102 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Lighting The ballasts are also not interchangable so even if you change the socket to fit, the ballast is incorrect.

09-07-2009, 03:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
trouble93 it never ends trouble93's Photo Gallery Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 978 Name: James Location: Nelsonville,Ohio My location Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 24 Times Said "Thanks" 99 Times Was Thanked 157 Times in 143 Posts	Re: Lighting You know Paul that's what I was thinking. If I remember right it's like a 650gal. tank so I can see where the wattage would be needed. If you could just change the socket you wouldn't get the right light par. I thought a m59 would just fit that ballast it was made for. __________________ If It Is To Be It's Up To Me!!! http://www.aquariumforum.com/vbgoogl...216796875&zoom

09-07-2009, 04:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
Paul B Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 433 Name: Paul B Location: Nassau NY Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 4 Times Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 102 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Lighting A sodium light needs a ballast for a sodium light and a MH lamp needs a MH ballast. They are not interchangeable

09-08-2009, 09:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
AZDesertRat Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 230 My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 87 Times in 74 Posts	Re: Lighting There are some ballasts that can be used for both. Most are older cap and coil type ballasts though not the newer electronic type we see today. You need to match the wattage of the ballast to the bulb wattage so unless you have some 1000 watt MH bulbs picked out I would look elsewhere.

09-08-2009, 11:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
AZDesertRat Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 230 My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 87 Times in 74 Posts	Re: Lighting As long as the ballast is designed for both MH and HPS you match the wattage and bulb style. They are out there and it does work.

09-08-2009, 11:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
trouble93 it never ends trouble93's Photo Gallery Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 978 Name: James Location: Nelsonville,Ohio My location Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 24 Times Said "Thanks" 99 Times Was Thanked 157 Times in 143 Posts	Re: Lighting I think we have gotten away from the OP I just wanted to know what the differents was. I had never heard of HS on a reef tank. To light a 650gal. tank would take some thinking out side the box. I guess it can be done. __________________ If It Is To Be It's Up To Me!!! http://www.aquariumforum.com/vbgoogl...216796875&zoom

09-08-2009, 12:22 PM	#16 (permalink)
AZDesertRat Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 230 My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 87 Times in 74 Posts	Re: Lighting Generally High Pressure Sodium bulbs will be in the yellow/red range, as low as 2000k in color. Metal Halide bulbs used in aquaium applications generally start out in the 6500k color range which require copious amounts of actinic supplementation then on to 10,000k which is still very yellow but starting to appear white, to 12,000-15,000k which can start to be on their own with more of the blue white we are used to see up through 20,000k which can appear very blue. HPS and even the lower k MH bulbs make it look like someone peed in your tank, very yellow and downright ugly. I used 2x250w 10,000k MH for several years and supplemented them with 2x140w VHO super actinics to get nice coloration. The growth with 10k K bulbs like Ushio and XM is fantastic as the PAR is very high, the trade off is having to supplement actinic. I am now using 12,000 k Reeflux bulbs with no supplementation and the color is pretty good. I plan to try 15,000 next change to get a bit more pop out of the corals but the trade off will be slower growth. Ushio and Iwasaki make bulbs that can be used in either ballast but they are more for hydroponics and greenhouses and still very low on the k or Kelvin scale so would be yellow/red in color.

09-08-2009, 02:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
AZDesertRat Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 230 My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 87 Times in 74 Posts	Re: Lighting Way back when some of us first got started in reef tanks, myself the late 70's early 80's, we didn't have many bulb choices. My first bulbs were 6500k Ushios with normal output fluorescent Philips actinics for supplementation. The color of the Ushios and Iwasakis was really ugly but the growth was great. You look back on all the things you experimented with over the years and its a wonder some of it worked at all! I kept fantastic corals in a 20G high with only 4 normal output 18" fluorescent bulbs (two Vitalites and two Philips actinics) in the plastic undercounter type kitchen fixtures, no reflectors at all. I had monti caps and digitata growing like crazy along with a sebae anemone I still have to this day, 20 years later. People would cringe if you tried that today! And to top it off I used a modified Skilter 250 for both skimming and filtration with an old style Rio to boot. The Rio was later replaced with a Powersweep which was a real PITA. When I went from the NO fluorescents to 2x55w PCs the corals really woke up. Then the 150w MH was even better.....

09-09-2009, 08:17 AM	#20 (permalink)
drhank Saltwater Section Specialist drhank's Photo Gallery Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 411 Name: Doc Location: Crestview. FL My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 57 Times Said "Thanks" 18 Times Was Thanked 162 Times in 111 Posts	Re: Lighting Rat's right on the money with this one. Many magnetic ballasts (M58, M59, etc) are also usable on HPS and vice versa. The HPS designation is different from the MH designation but you can cross reference and often use HPS ballasts for MH applications. __________________ *Doc* Dr Hank's 200 gallon Reef Tank http://www.aquariumforum.com/f46/drhanks-tank-3440.html

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