So I took a trip to my LFS today, with samples of both my tap water and my tank water. I had no particular concern -- I just wanted the info for record-keeping purposes.

pH: Out of the tap, 7.6. In the tank, 6.6. The explanation was that, most likely, my large piece of driftwood was bringing the pH down. I'm actually quite happy with the 6.6.

Ammonia: Actually had a reading of 1.0 in the tank, which surprised me.

Nitrite: 0.

Nitrate: 0.

GH: Less than 1

KH: Less than 1

The above state of affairs has me a little worried that I'm starting a mini-cycle, six months after the tank has been set up.

Here's info you need to know, however:

Recently I've been using Algone to attempt to assist with an algae problem, to supposedly lower levels of nitrite and nitrate, clean the water, etc.

Recently, also, I've changed my water-change strategy, moving from about 25 - 40 percent per week to about 15 percent per week, for a variety of reasons.

I use an AquaClear 50 with the carbon pack, along with some added floss for finer filtration, and now the Algone packet -- very small.

The water looks fantastic. The fish are happier than I've ever seen fish. Appetites good, behavior very active, no oddities at all.

My basic questions:

- Do you think my recent water cleanliness efforts have been overzealous? Typically, my ammonia has been zero, nitrites zero, and nitrates from 5 to 40 ppm max when I went two and half weeks without a WC about a month ago.

- I want to use less chemicals in my tank overall -- currently, I'm using Amquel Plus and Novaqua Plus when I treat water -- is that too much? Could I drop both and just use Seachem Prime instead?

- Given what you know now, do you think the Ammonia reading is a false positive?

- Should nitrates actually be at zero? I got the water test results today (Saturday). Last WC was 15 percent on Wednesday evening. I think, ideally, they should be as close to zero as possible. However, the supposed presence of ammonia and total lack of nitrates concerns me. I will obviously keep a close eye on the ammonia readings. (I already own/use an API master test kit, but I occasionally take my water into the LFS to get their readings of my water and learn the best techniques for reading it.)

I want to run this live planted tank as naturally as possible. That means, as few chemicals as possible. I'd like to lose the carbon pack in the filter and simply add more floss, and have everything "sit lower" in the AquaClear. I'd bought and sold on the idea of small (15 percent-ish) frequent water changes -- I can explain that, if you're interested.

So, can anyone comment on the water parameters and my questions about chems and readings?

Thank you in advance.

Instead of using tap water, what about using RO/DI from your LFS. May help with the ammonia. Also, have you added fish lately? Could point to that as an ammonia spike...maybe. Also, for a planted tank, are you planning on using a CO2 system? You will need to add some chems to fertilize the plants. As for the Amquel and Novaqua, continue to use if you are using tap water, you can't overdose.

No, have not added any fish lately. Not planning on a CO2 system -- my anachris (that's all I have) are totally thriving under 48W of 6700K light. Don't want to get more diverse than that -- either way, however, I'll only select plants that can handle it. I forgot to say that I use Flourish as a fertilizer once and sometimes twice a week.

Don't wanna go the RO/DI route. I know my limits.

Thanks.

all I use is seachem prime to condition, I dont like to add chemicals because i think they throw off your tests which i think is whats happening here, i never had 0 nitrates. try using less chems. how heavy is your bio-load? maybe 15% wc isnt enough.

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90 gallon, 1 Iridescent shark, 2 Pleco, 3 Goldfish, 5 Cory cats, 2 Nerite snails
5 gallon hex, Blue Crowntail Betta, 1 nerite snail,

My bioload:

One 1.25 inch dwarf rainbow gourami
Six .75 inch or less harlequin rasboras
Six .75 inch or less lemon tetras
Four one inch or less julii corya

Two 16 inch live anacrhis

BTW, I think this is right. And yeah, using less chem is exactly what I'm going for. Thank you very much!

BTW, my decision to do small, frequent water changes is pretty much captured here.

In short, it's primarily the difference between source water and tank water. My source has a pH of 7.6 and my tank a pH of 6.6. If I do a 50 percent water change, my tank water suddenly spikes to 7.1 -- me no like.

If however I do a 15 percent water change, the new pH is roughly 6.75.

I like the fact that the pH fluctuation is minimal.

I also like that I'm pretty much forced to just vacuum the gravel, because by the time I do, my 3 gallons (15 percent of 20 gallons) are already out. Seems like it should leave enough stuff in there to keep the biological process going, but get most of the rotting/dead stuff out.

Again, I just shifted to this new cleaning routine, so I will keep you apprised, if you care. On many levels, very small and very frequent makes sense to me.

Also, I'm still concerned this is the reason for the readings above.

(Of course, if I had a major tank issue, I'd do a large water change, as needed, immediately. I'm just talking about routine maintenance of a healthy tank.)

Thanks again.

In a live tank Nitrates will never be zero. Your Nitrates will continue to slowly increase until removed by water changes. In a well managed tank both Nitrites and Ammonia should be near zero. This can change with fish deaths and over feeding. Having an Ammonia spike in a newly established tank is very normal. This spike will be followed in a few weeks by another Nitrite spike.

This is not helpful, Jim. These are the same questions I am asking. My tank is well-managed. I am asking for specific info and potential tweaks. Thank you anyway.

You have a ph problem caused by your low kh, or carbonate hardness - or you will. The driftwood may have lowered the ph, but you have nothing there to hold your ph stable. Kh should be around 3 degrees. Without that your ph can bottom out below 6.0 or sky rocket to levels above 9.0. Add in the fact the tank is cycling and the situation is made worse. RODI water will make it even worse! Do not use it.

If you home is on a softner system, try to get water through a by-pass if one is installed. My kid has the same problem with his tank and he has to use crushed coral (a mthod to boost kh) to keep his ph stable.

You can test it a few times through the say to see if it is going up and down. If it does this, your fish will be stressed and possibly die.

I read your water change link and it was interesting, just wondering if you do Wc every 4-5-days instead of 1 per week? sounds like you plan on ditching the carbon which IMO is only good for removing medications and odors so unless these are a problem the carbon is not needed, instead I would throw a handful of those bio-media balls in the filter and then your extra floss.
Are you still fighting the algae problem? hows that going?
To me having low PH or High PH is not that big a deal, however sounds like yours is having big swings which is not good.

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90 gallon, 1 Iridescent shark, 2 Pleco, 3 Goldfish, 5 Cory cats, 2 Nerite snails
5 gallon hex, Blue Crowntail Betta, 1 nerite snail,

JR thanks for that lil tip... on hardness/ph. OP.. try a little experiment .. draw a bucket of your tap and test. Let it set for 24 hrs and test again. I'm not sure it was on here or another forum (too many to keep track of) but municipalities will jack the water chemistry in various manners. The net is in some locations your ph will spike after the "jacking" chems wear or gas out or conversely true will drop like a stone!.. Let er set for 24 hrs and see what your true tap water chemistry really is. If it wasn't on here, let me know and I'll find the thread. Bill in Va.

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12 Tanks, 900 gallons. Discus/Angels/Malawi/Lake Victorias. Just added a 135 & 2 - 29's..

TMJ.. BTW.. your post was the most and best stated question I've encountered. I might be posing my next questions to you! Bill in Va.

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12 Tanks, 900 gallons. Discus/Angels/Malawi/Lake Victorias. Just added a 135 & 2 - 29's..

You're running about the same PH as I run for Discus. Seachem Discus buffer is extremely stable at holding in the 6.6 range.

As stated, your pH is changing from 7.6 to 6.6 because of low carbonate buffering. I use baking soda to buffer my KH. Do not use RO water, as it has a KH of 0 so anything in your tank like driftwood, limestone, etc. will cause your pH to fluctuate wildly.

I would definitely stop using the AmQuel Plus - it bonds to ammonia and ammonium molecules and, while it does render the ammonia/ammonium non-toxic, it makes them harder for nitrifying bacteria to eliminate. That is probably why you are seeing what appears to me to be a stalled cycle. I would stop using it. As far as the NovAqua Plus, if it neutralizes chlorine and breaks the chloramine bond then I would keep it. If it doesn't, get rid of it as well and get something that does. Chlorine and chloramine are toxic to fish and that is the sole purpose of most tap water conditioners.

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Officially fishless until after the move....tune in later for details!

FWIW

In all my tanks both freshwater and marine both nitrates and phosphates are unmeasureable using straight untreated tap water and no water changes. While I'm sure nitrates could be a couple ppm and phosphates .01ppm or so, I just can't measure those levels.

The tanks simply consume them with the plant life in the tanks.

Actually during cycles nitrates can bump up as the plants consume ammonia instead. but you get the idea.

my .02

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fw leiden since 1979, fo salt since 1979, mixed reef 55g 2002-2009. Strong emphasis on the tank taking care of itself. Balanced with plant life, no water changes, tap water, no filters in FW. Only dosing calcium, alk, mag in marine reef tanks. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-...ods-26410.html
recent tanks (till 2009) 7 years- 10g FW leiden 7 yrs, 55g mixed reef 7, 2 yrs, 20g FW leiden, 10 g fw leiden , 29g mixed reef, current tank 55g leiden

Yeah well FWIW, the pics I have seen of your plants definitely show that your water is a desert of sorts when it comes to some of the nutrients they need. Their health shows it.

williemcd, thanks very much for the kind words. i didn't think it was anything special, but i'm glad someone did. btw, i will try many of the ideas proposed in this thread, including your tip about letting my tap water sit out.

i will also be keeping tight tabs on the pH in the tank to see if i start getting "wild swings."

thanks, all.

jrman
Can't do this -- I live in an apartment building. How much crushed coral does your son use? What would you recommend for a 20g tall with my parameters? And do you suggest putting it in a nylon (pantyhose) bag in the filter?

Thank you in advance.

I would start with a bucket of water and add just a little of the crushed coral to see what the effects are. It will bump ph a tad. Baking soda is another option but has to be added every time you do a water change. I have my kid putting in just shy of a 1/2 cup for a 75g tank.

You can drop into the tank or like you said in a filter bag or old hose and dropped into your filter.