A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110...

ClinicaTerra · 10-27-2011, 08:17 PM

We (my wife and I) were walking around a brand spanking new Petco that opened near us (so new you could still smell the paint on the walls; they were still stocking their shelves) and I happened to just take one of the AquaClear filters off the shelf to look at the box (I believe it was the 70 model). I was reading what Hagen printed on one side of the box regarding the water flow of this filter, which is adjustable on the AquaClears of course, and it got me thinking about my own 110 model...

It stated that by reducing the flow rate of the filter, this will actually give better and more filtration due to the media materials having much more flow through them, or something along those lines. The statement went on to summarize that by lowering -- not increasing -- the flow of the filter, the result will be much cleaner, clearer aquarium water...

I couldn't believe it; all this time, I have been running my 110 at its optimum, maximum output -- should these filters be running at lower flow rates for better filtration? Is this true? After reading this, I came home and lowered our tank's 110 to its midway position to lower the flow rate...

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

susankat · 10-27-2011, 10:33 PM

Its because the water spends more time in the filter with lower flow

ClinicaTerra · 10-27-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susankat

Its because the water spends more time in the filter with lower flow

Thank you, as always, Susan; this is what I suspected based on what I have been reading about these HOBs...

So should I leave it at the minimum flow rate, midway or at full max output? What is the best setting?

susankat · 10-28-2011, 12:42 AM

I think an inbetween would probably be good. That way you would still have plenty of water movement.

ClinicaTerra · 10-28-2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susankat

I think an inbetween would probably be good. That way you would still have plenty of water movement.

Thanks.

One would think the max output (i.e. running the filter "wide open") would be the "best" way to get the most filtration, but apparently this just causes more surface agitation and turbulence from the return flow. That's the way I have been running it since I got the filter (max output).

I may email Hagen about this; please let me know if you have any other suggestions or input.

blue water · 10-31-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra

Thanks.

One would think the max output (i.e. running the filter "wide open") would be the "best" way to get the most filtration, but apparently this just causes more surface agitation and turbulence from the return flow. That's the way I have been running it since I got the filter (max output).

I may email Hagen about this; please let me know if you have any other suggestions or input.

hi been using ac 110 for 3 years with full flow,just rinsing foam and bio mass also using charcoal.water is crystal clear.have assorted plants and 25 assorted fish and 5 shrimp in a 75 gal tank.

ClinicaTerra · 10-31-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue water

hi been using ac 110 for 3 years with full flow,just rinsing foam and bio mass also using charcoal.water is crystal clear.have assorted plants and 25 assorted fish and 5 shrimp in a 75 gal tank.

Thanks for your reply, Blue Water.

Is there a reason you decided to run the filter on full versus the reduced flow? Just curious, as a fellow 110 owner...

I too just rinse the sponge/foam and the bio rings occasionally during an extensive water change, and instead of the charcoal I use Seachem's Purigen.

I actually just got a response from Hagen about this via email; I will check it and post the message...

ClinicaTerra · 10-31-2011, 05:40 PM

Okay. Here's what Hagen's customer support said:

On any filter, the slower the water flows through the media, the more effective it is. If the 110 currently appears to be filtering your tank properly, then I see no reason to slow down the flow rate. If you do decide to slow it down, just keep an eye on the fish to be sure they are getting enough oxygen from the surface aggitation from the water output.

Thank you

This says to me they're actually suggesting that I continue running the 110 at full output; however, I have a TON of oxygenation going on in this tank due to two HOBs and two bubble bars, so should I take what they mentioned about the fish getting enough oxygen into consideration?

holly12 · 10-31-2011, 06:20 PM

Meh, I have 2 filters and an air stone in each tank and I run them all at max. I figure the more oxygen the better, and, they are filtering the tank fine, so I don't feel the need to slow them down. Interesting idea though.... I've never thought about slowing the flow down to increase filtration.

ClinicaTerra · 10-31-2011, 07:09 PM

Indeed, Holly; I too never really gave the slower-flow-for-better-filtration theory much thought, if at all...

You gotta wonder...

I think I may just go back to running the filter at full output, unless it gets so strong (the flow current) that the fish appear to be bouncing off the walls of the tank...

blue water · 11-01-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra

Indeed, Holly; I too never really gave the slower-flow-for-better-filtration theory much thought, if at all...

You gotta wonder...

I think I may just go back to running the filter at full output, unless it gets so strong (the flow current) that the fish appear to be bouncing off the walls of the tank...

in my 75 gal tank beside the ac110 i also have ac 70 and an uv unit.they all run full open .the plants sway in the currents and the fish go with the flow.THEY ARE ALL DONNG FINE

Rohkey · 11-02-2011, 08:39 PM

I never knew this, I've always had my filters on maximum flow rate as I assumed the more times the water cycled per hour the better. Never occurred to me that it would be more efficient the other way. Thanks for inquiring about this as I'm going to now adjust the flow rates on my filters, which is a win-win; more efficient and less splashing haha. I have 3 filters and two airstones so I'm not too worried about aeration.

ClinicaTerra · 11-02-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue water

in my 75 gal tank beside the ac110 i also have ac 70 and an uv unit.they all run full open .the plants sway in the currents and the fish go with the flow.THEY ARE ALL DONNG FINE

So in your 75 gallon, you're running a 110 AND a 70? That's alot of filtration; but I guess that's normal -- in my 60, I'm running an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 and the 110, so...

I have since returned my flow to wide open, but I hope this was the right decision, as the marketing materials from Hagen on the boxes of the AquaClear line state that reduced flow is actually more efficient...

ClinicaTerra · 11-03-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohkey

I never knew this, I've always had my filters on maximum flow rate as I assumed the more times the water cycled per hour the better. Never occurred to me that it would be more efficient the other way. Thanks for inquiring about this as I'm going to now adjust the flow rates on my filters, which is a win-win; more efficient and less splashing haha. I have 3 filters and two airstones so I'm not too worried about aeration.

Hey, Rohkey.

Thanks for participating; indeed, I also didn't think that a reduced flow would make more sense and make for better filtration, but that's what the marketing materials on the AC70 stated, and you saw what Hagen themselves said to me via email about it. Still, the rep that replied to my email made it seem like if I'm not having any issues with the fish and their health, there's no reason to run the 110 on anything but max flow, so I don't know...

I have since brought my 110 back to full output, but now I'm not certain what the correct method is, to be honest...

blue water · 11-03-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra

So in your 75 gallon, you're running a 110 AND a 70? That's alot of filtration; but I guess that's normal -- in my 60, I'm running an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 and the 110, so...

I have since returned my flow to wide open, but I hope this was the right decision, as the marketing materials from Hagen on the boxes of the AquaClear line state that reduced flow is actually more efficient...

your judgement on how your tank reacts to what you do ie water quality plant growth etc reguardless of what the pro say. it' yoyr call

ClinicaTerra · 11-03-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue water

your judgement on how your tank reacts to what you do ie water quality plant growth etc reguardless of what the pro say. it' yoyr call

Well, I don't have any live plants in my tank, so I'm not sure if that's a factor; it seems Hagen themselves were suggesting that there's no reason NOT to run the filter wide open if there's nothing wrong with my water or fish, so...

boarder2k7 · 11-06-2011, 03:00 PM

The manual says:

Quote:

Sometimes delicate fish and plants require a gentler water flow. The patented AquaClear®
refiltration system allows you to control the flow rate without compromising filtration
efficiency. When the flow rate is reduced, up to 50% of the water within the filter chamber is
processed multiple times. More impurities are filtered out, creating a healthier tank with
sparkling clean and clear water.

This does NOT mean that a lower flow rate will clean the water more. Basically, instead of slowing the pump down, which would require expensive electronics and add complications with impeller efficiency, the filtration system has a limited bypass ability. This bypass (appears to, although I don't own one so I can't verify for sure) shunts water in such a way that the pump keeps running at full speed, but recirculates part of the water from the output of the filter to the intake.

The reason this doesn't mean it cleans better is simple. The maximum cleanliness of the water is dictated by two things. Mainly it is driven by the type of filter media present in the filter. If you have a 10 micron filter, you're not going to catch particles any smaller than 10 microns, but you should catch all of them above 10. (I know that filters aren't perfect and as they get dirty the efficiencies change, but for arguments sake we'll assume that a 10 micron filter is only 10 microns) The second thing driving filter efficiency is much less important, and that is the speed of the water through a filter. The reason I say that this is much less important is simple, assuming you are not exceeding the flow rate of your filter media (because if you do, all bets are off, bypass and overpressure is not a good thing) it will always be only as effective as it was designed to be. IE: don't use filter floss to catch DTE, I use a micron cartridge for that if I want to really scrub the water out.

Real life example? A HEPA air cleaner removes 99.97% of contaminants in its rated range whether or not you run it on low, medium, or high.

Another reason that running at higher filtration rates will keep the tank cleaner is that you keep debris from settling out of the water column and landing on the bottom of the tank before the filter is able to clean them. This saves you on vacuuming as well as keeps the water cleaner. Plus the higher turnover rate means that all the water in the tank gets processed more often. The filter can’t clean water it doesn’t process!

What Hagen is trying to claim is that if you need to slow the filter down to be gentler on plants, it is still going to filter just as well. (It won’t)

An old car adage comes to mind here, “There ain’t no replacement for displacement!”

Hope this was helpful,
-B

ClinicaTerra · 11-06-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boarder2k7

The manual says:

This does NOT mean that a lower flow rate will clean the water more. Basically, instead of slowing the pump down, which would require expensive electronics and add complications with impeller efficiency, the filtration system has a limited bypass ability. This bypass (appears to, although I don't own one so I can't verify for sure) shunts water in such a way that the pump keeps running at full speed, but recirculates part of the water from the output of the filter to the intake.

The reason this doesn't mean it cleans better is simple. The maximum cleanliness of the water is dictated by two things. Mainly it is driven by the type of filter media present in the filter. If you have a 10 micron filter, you're not going to catch particles any smaller than 10 microns, but you should catch all of them above 10. (I know that filters aren't perfect and as they get dirty the efficiencies change, but for arguments sake we'll assume that a 10 micron filter is only 10 microns) The second thing driving filter efficiency is much less important, and that is the speed of the water through a filter. The reason I say that this is much less important is simple, assuming you are not exceeding the flow rate of your filter media (because if you do, all bets are off, bypass and overpressure is not a good thing) it will always be only as effective as it was designed to be. IE: don't use filter floss to catch DTE, I use a micron cartridge for that if I want to really scrub the water out.

Real life example? A HEPA air cleaner removes 99.97% of contaminants in its rated range whether or not you run it on low, medium, or high.

Another reason that running at higher filtration rates will keep the tank cleaner is that you keep debris from settling out of the water column and landing on the bottom of the tank before the filter is able to clean them. This saves you on vacuuming as well as keeps the water cleaner. Plus the higher turnover rate means that all the water in the tank gets processed more often. The filter can’t clean water it doesn’t process!

What Hagen is trying to claim is that if you need to slow the filter down to be gentler on plants, it is still going to filter just as well. (It won’t)

An old car adage comes to mind here, “There ain’t no replacement for displacement!”

Hope this was helpful,
-B

Wow. Thanks for the information, boarder. I appreciate the time you took...

However, I'm still stumped; the marketing hoopla on the boxes of these AquaClears seem, to me, to be stating that running the filter at a slower pace will allow more water to be filtered at the media level -- you're saying that running it at full output will allow better filtration in the end?

Either way, I have returned the flow to max output and will keep it there until I hear back from you...I was just confused, as the email direct from Hagen implied that lower rates means "cleaner water" as well.

I don't have any live plants, and my media in the 110 is as follows:

-Stock Hagen sponge on bottom of basket
-Two 100ml bags of Seachem Purigen, side by side
-Sack of Seachem PhosGuard
-Sack of stock Hagen ceramic bio rings

10-27-2011, 08:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
ClinicaTerra Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 433 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 6 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110... We (my wife and I) were walking around a brand spanking new Petco that opened near us (so new you could still smell the paint on the walls; they were still stocking their shelves) and I happened to just take one of the AquaClear filters off the shelf to look at the box (I believe it was the 70 model). I was reading what Hagen printed on one side of the box regarding the water flow of this filter, which is adjustable on the AquaClears of course, and it got me thinking about my own 110 model... It stated that by reducing the flow rate of the filter, this will actually give better and more filtration due to the media materials having much more flow through them, or something along those lines. The statement went on to summarize that by lowering -- not increasing -- the flow of the filter, the result will be much cleaner, clearer aquarium water... I couldn't believe it; all this time, I have been running my 110 at its optimum, maximum output -- should these filters be running at lower flow rates for better filtration? Is this true? After reading this, I came home and lowered our tank's 110 to its midway position to lower the flow rate... Can anyone shed some light on this for me? __________________ FUJIMOTO 60-GALLON RECTANGULAR - BLACK OAK STAND & FULL CANOPY - AQUEON GLASS VERSA-TOP (24"X1) & FLUORESCENT LIGHT STRIP - MARINELAND PERFECTO GLASS CANOPY (24"X1) AQUEON QUIETFLOW 55 325GPH (1) - HAGEN AQUACLEAR A-620/110 500GPH (1) RENA AIR 400 (1) - TETRA WHISPER 60 AIR PUMP (1) - PETCO BUBBLE BARS (18"X2) RED CAP ORANDA (1) - CHOCOLATE/GOLD FANTAIL (1) - CALICO RYUKIN (1) - NEW! - ]RED/ORANGE RYUKIN (1) - NEW!

10-27-2011, 10:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
susankat Pleco n bn breeder n BOSS susankat's Photo Gallery Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,417 Name: Susan Location: Tulsa, Ok Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 4,150 Times Said "Thanks" 1,610 Times Was Thanked 1,808 Times in 1,549 Posts	Re: A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110... Its because the water spends more time in the filter with lower flow __________________ SUCCESS IS MEASURED BY YEARS, NOT MONTHS!!! 220 Tank build http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/sta...late-3253.html

10-28-2011, 12:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
susankat Pleco n bn breeder n BOSS susankat's Photo Gallery Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,417 Name: Susan Location: Tulsa, Ok Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 4,150 Times Said "Thanks" 1,610 Times Was Thanked 1,808 Times in 1,549 Posts	Re: A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110... I think an inbetween would probably be good. That way you would still have plenty of water movement. __________________ SUCCESS IS MEASURED BY YEARS, NOT MONTHS!!! 220 Tank build http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/sta...late-3253.html

10-31-2011, 05:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
ClinicaTerra Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 433 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 6 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110... Okay. Here's what Hagen's customer support said: On any filter, the slower the water flows through the media, the more effective it is. If the 110 currently appears to be filtering your tank properly, then I see no reason to slow down the flow rate. If you do decide to slow it down, just keep an eye on the fish to be sure they are getting enough oxygen from the surface aggitation from the water output. Thank you This says to me they're actually suggesting that I continue running the 110 at full output; however, I have a TON of oxygenation going on in this tank due to two HOBs and two bubble bars, so should I take what they mentioned about the fish getting enough oxygen into consideration? __________________ FUJIMOTO 60-GALLON RECTANGULAR - BLACK OAK STAND & FULL CANOPY - AQUEON GLASS VERSA-TOP (24"X1) & FLUORESCENT LIGHT STRIP - MARINELAND PERFECTO GLASS CANOPY (24"X1) AQUEON QUIETFLOW 55 325GPH (1) - HAGEN AQUACLEAR A-620/110 500GPH (1) RENA AIR 400 (1) - TETRA WHISPER 60 AIR PUMP (1) - PETCO BUBBLE BARS (18"X2) RED CAP ORANDA (1) - CHOCOLATE/GOLD FANTAIL (1) - CALICO RYUKIN (1) - NEW! - ]RED/ORANGE RYUKIN (1) - NEW!

10-31-2011, 06:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
holly12 Dude.... wait..... what? holly12's Photo Gallery Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,074 Name: Holly Location: Canada My location Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 815 Times Said "Thanks" 672 Times Was Thanked 528 Times in 515 Posts	Re: A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110... Meh, I have 2 filters and an air stone in each tank and I run them all at max. I figure the more oxygen the better, and, they are filtering the tank fine, so I don't feel the need to slow them down. Interesting idea though.... I've never thought about slowing the flow down to increase filtration. __________________ 20g Heavily Planted http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery...00&ppuser=8981 36g Bow Front Heavily Planted http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery...00&ppuser=8981

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10-31-2011, 07:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
ClinicaTerra Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 433 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 6 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110... Indeed, Holly; I too never really gave the slower-flow-for-better-filtration theory much thought, if at all... You gotta wonder... I think I may just go back to running the filter at full output, unless it gets so strong (the flow current) that the fish appear to be bouncing off the walls of the tank... __________________ FUJIMOTO 60-GALLON RECTANGULAR - BLACK OAK STAND & FULL CANOPY - AQUEON GLASS VERSA-TOP (24"X1) & FLUORESCENT LIGHT STRIP - MARINELAND PERFECTO GLASS CANOPY (24"X1) AQUEON QUIETFLOW 55 325GPH (1) - HAGEN AQUACLEAR A-620/110 500GPH (1) RENA AIR 400 (1) - TETRA WHISPER 60 AIR PUMP (1) - PETCO BUBBLE BARS (18"X2) RED CAP ORANDA (1) - CHOCOLATE/GOLD FANTAIL (1) - CALICO RYUKIN (1) - NEW! - ]RED/ORANGE RYUKIN (1) - NEW!

11-02-2011, 08:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Rohkey The Yeti Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 290 Name: Chris Location: Detroit, MI, USA My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 1 Times Said "Thanks" 86 Times Was Thanked 92 Times in 84 Posts	Re: A Water Flow Question With Regard to my AquaClear 110... I never knew this, I've always had my filters on maximum flow rate as I assumed the more times the water cycled per hour the better. Never occurred to me that it would be more efficient the other way. Thanks for inquiring about this as I'm going to now adjust the flow rates on my filters, which is a win-win; more efficient and less splashing haha. I have 3 filters and two airstones so I'm not too worried about aeration. __________________ 30G planted aquarium with Aquaclear 50 and two Aquaclear 20s. 7 Cherry Barbs, 12 Cardinal Tetras, 1 Albino Bristlenose Pleco, 1 Golden Honey Gourami, and a handful of Ghost Shrimp.

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