I tried it and it was a mess. It killed all my Neon Tetras and my other fish do not look so good. I think that I created some phosphate or nitrate issue when all that old crushed coral and the detrius got stirred up.

While I was scooping the old stuff out, the water got so muddy I could not see the fish. I did two 20% wc, while I was doing it just to help out a bit but it was not enough.

I am speculating about the phosphate, nitrate overload but it is either that or somehow I got something in the tank without realizing it. There was lot's going on with scraping the algae off, cleaning the hard decor, adding new substrate, replanting, etc.

In hindsight, I wish I had plopped the fish into another tank. I had a 10g for things like this but I had three platy babies in there at the time. (I've got about 50 Dalmatian Mollies in there right now, born yesterday).

Anyway, I would have been better off putting them in a bucket with an air stone, doing my substrate change and cleaning, and putting them back in.

This is just a bit of experience that I had. You mileage may vary.

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60g tall, all artificial plants, Rainbow tank; 55g for African Cichlids. 20g long for fry; 20g hex, 2 black Angels at my desk; 10g planted, with 50 Molly fry; 10 gal, 2x 13w cfl lightning, planted; 2g hex for "Buddy the Betta"; Wanting a 200g +, MTS getting bad.

I can imagine the mess. Every so often I remove all the things in the tank so I can do a thorough deep gravel vac. Since I have no live plants and my weekly maintenance involves removing water with out any vac. This is a must IMO to prevent major water quality problems down the road.

After pulling all the things out my water has all kinds of "stuff" floating around. Fortunately I'm running three filters which I leave on while I'm rinsing the decorations to clear the debris.

Sorry for your loses.

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Do fish get thirsty?
How to fishless cycle your aquarium http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fis...cle-15036.html

Information on API FW test kit http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/api-...ion-15347.html

Well...it is better to remove, but I've done 3 times and never had a problem. It does reuire quite a few water changes after it is all finished to clear the water. I just rescaped a tank last weekend and it created almost just as big of a mess.

DUDE dont leave the fish in the tank when u do a substrate change. Ive done several tanks you take the fish out and put them in a 5 gallon bucket. If the filter fits i run that or a bubble wand on the bucket and then change everything in the tank. Hind site is always 20/20.

On the other side of the fence .... I have never removed the fish while changing out substrates. Never an issue.

I purchased some eco gravel for my plants. I plan on either adding the gravel in there or removing all the gravel from the left side of my tank (about 25% is planted) and putting the eco stuff in. I have only had the tank running about a week and have 12 shrimp in to help clean the bottom up, so I don't think the bottom will be all that dirty. Should I relocate my fish or just go ahead and do the change with them in it? Also, it says not to rinse the gravel out...should I or should I not rinse it? The gravel is coming in the mail in a few days so I'm not even sure if the 'live bacteria' that is on the gravel will still be viable or not.

(Sorry about the hijacking of the thread, was going to start a new one but saw this as a good place to post this).

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30G planted aquarium with Aquaclear 50 and two Aquaclear 20s. 7 Cherry Barbs, 12 Cardinal Tetras, 1 Albino Bristlenose Pleco, 1 Golden Honey Gourami, and a handful of Ghost Shrimp.

I rensed my new gravel pretty good but it still had some "dust" if you will. Mine was the dry type, but I've seen the wet in the bag type too. If I had had that type I don't think I'd rense very much. Whatever is in that liquid is supposed to stay, somewhat.

It seems that others have had better luck with this process than me but if I had to do it again, I'd put the fish somewhere else for the change. I was really just a step or two from a complete breakdown of the tank anyway. Of course, I am still stinging from the loss of my Neons so my opinion is degraded by emotions, mostly anger at myself. I just hope the remaining fish survive. I am doing 25% wc, each day and testing. So far, no out of range chemisty.

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60g tall, all artificial plants, Rainbow tank; 55g for African Cichlids. 20g long for fry; 20g hex, 2 black Angels at my desk; 10g planted, with 50 Molly fry; 10 gal, 2x 13w cfl lightning, planted; 2g hex for "Buddy the Betta"; Wanting a 200g +, MTS getting bad.

One thing to keep in mind when when working with the fish in the tank is to move slowly. Get a glass and slowly scoop out the substrate and remove it slowly. This keeps the amount of gunk stirred up to a minimal.

Once the substrate is removed, let things settle to the bottom. Then, just using the tubing from a gravel vac, start a siphon and sipon out all the goodies on the bottom. Doing it this way reduces the amount of water you draw out of the tank.

To add the new substrate, after it has been thoroughly rinsed, scoop out a large glass of it and slowly lower it into the tank. Gently pour it out in a pile and scape when done.

Run an airstone during this process too. It will help.

I gravel vac the heck out of the gravel when I change it, I take fish out or leave them in I do it the same way, I get alot of the crud out and the water stays clearer and makes it much easier to do the job.

@Rohkey - I never rinse Eco. In that respect alone, you'll see that for simplicity sake, it is the geatest substrate out there. Others are better for their quality, but that no rinsing thing is awesome. There are a few things that I really hate doing when it comes to aqauarium stuff....rinsing gravel is at the top of them. Doesn't help that I have a few large tanks and have to do a lot of rinsing.

As stated in my previous post, just start the new gravel in a separate tank and transfer once the cycle is complete.

There is no shock to the existing system and no shock or death to the fish stock.

Its simple, easy and safe.


Hope this helps.

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