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Old 06-14-2011, 01:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

OK, I know there's a lot of information about pH fluctuations throughout the day, but the pH in my tank rises several points every single day, and never goes back down no matter what time of day I test.

I have a 5 gallon tank with one betta in it, flourescent lighting that is kept on for 12 hours a day, and no live plants. I'm also using regular gravel substrate. Because it's a new tank, I test everything daily. Normally, the pH of the tank is around 7.5 (blue in the API liquid test kit). Four days ago, it tested at 7.3. It wasn't much of a change, so I didn't think much about it.

The next day, it was 7.0. The day after, 6.8. I got worried at this point, and tested it again at a later time of day to see if maybe it was just shifting around depending on the lighting. It was the same in the evening as it was in the morning. Yesterday, it was 6.5. I did a 10% water change, and when I tested the new water it had a pH of 7.6. I thought that adding that would stablize the pH of the tank, but today it was 6.0...

HELP! The pH just keeps falling, at least 2 points per day, and I don't know what to do about it! Should I put something into the tank to help stablize it? I don't want to use any chemicals, because that might cause too much of a change. But should I add something else? Is it nothing to worry about? Should I buy another test kit? The strips are showing that pH and alkalinity are consistently the same, and so is hardness. That's why I was wondering about the accuracy of the liquid test.... Is this normal in a cycling tank? I've been doing research online, and nobody else seems to have this problem....

UPDATE:

I just tested it again, and I think the air stone is working! It's been running for a while now, and the pH has gone up about two points! I'm so relieved! Though Braveheart is sort of irritated that I keep testing the water and messing with his tank.

Thank you all so much! You all have no idea how much your advice has helped, and how much calmer I feel now! lol Though I still might get the java fern, as extra protection against future pH fluctuations. I might even gradually transition to all-live plants! Though only after I know I can keep the fern alive. Again, thanks to everyone who gave me advice! I hope I can apply your ideas in the right way!
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

The only reason I can think of that would cause declining pH in your setup is elevated CO2 concentrations from your fish breathing. If that's the case, try sticking some low-maintenance plants like java fern in the tank and see if they can help balance out the pH by consuming the CO2 and generating oxygen. Another way would be to put a bubbler in the tank to promote aeration and gas exchange at the surface, though the betta will not like the current. Another way to prevent the pH from declining too quickly is to add some alkaline buffering to your water. A mesh bag of peat moss will help elevate the buffering capacity, and you can get peat moss from your local hardware store's gardening section.

Hope these help!
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Talking Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

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Originally Posted by gtm2007@yahoo.com View Post
The only reason I can think of that would cause declining pH in your setup is elevated CO2 concentrations from your fish breathing. If that's the case, try sticking some low-maintenance plants like java fern in the tank and see if they can help balance out the pH by consuming the CO2 and generating oxygen. Another way would be to put a bubbler in the tank to promote aeration and gas exchange at the surface, though the betta will not like the current. Another way to prevent the pH from declining too quickly is to add some alkaline buffering to your water. A mesh bag of peat moss will help elevate the buffering capacity, and you can get peat moss from your local hardware store's gardening section.

Hope these help!
Hmm... Now that you mention it, it might be a buildup of CO2... I had an air pump going into the tank that activated one of those bubble decorations, but I had turned it off so it wouldn't disrupt his bubble nest... Coincidentally, I turned it off two days before I noticed the drop in pH! I'll turn it on now and test it in another hour or two. If that doesn't work, I'm going with the Java fern. Thanks so much!!!
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

what that guy said I 2nd that.
What is the ph of your tap water?
Too many chems being added to your water to treat it can meen higher chance of ph swings
try not to over use chems and keep it natural as you can.
can you tell us what you do with your water chemistry from scratch pls?
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

Don't forget, bettas are tropical fish and like warm water. Consider an under-gravel heating pad or a small 10 Watt heater. Let us know how the bubbler does mitigating the pH drop.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

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what that guy said I 2nd that.
What is the ph of your tap water?
Too many chems being added to your water to treat it can meen higher chance of ph swings
try not to over use chems and keep it natural as you can.
can you tell us what you do with your water chemistry from scratch pls?
I only add NovAqua during regular water changes, as well as aquarium salt. I've added AmQuel twice before, and I did use a little bit of Betta Fix last week because of the stress of switching tanks.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Don't forget, bettas are tropical fish and like warm water. Consider an under-gravel heating pad or a small 10 Watt heater. Let us know how the bubbler does mitigating the pH drop.
OK, I will! I've got the air pump on, though I'm about to run to the store to get an airstone that won't make such large bubbles. Braveheart doesn't like that so much! I think the temperature should be fine. He has a heater that keeps the temp at a constant 78 degrees, and I always add new water slowly to allow the temperature to even out.

Thank you so much for the advice! I'll test in about an hour to give the tank time to settle, and then update.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

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I only add NovAqua during regular water changes, as well as aquarium salt. I've added AmQuel twice before, and I did use a little bit of Betta Fix last week because of the stress of switching tanks.
Why do you add aquarium salt? Really, the only thing you would want to add would be some tap water conditioner (like NovAqua).
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

Can you post a pic of the whole setup? There may be something you're forgetting to mention because you've looked at it a thousand times and don't see it anymore. Happens to me all the time.

Another thought I had is whether you might have a solvent in there still from when you initially cleaned the tank?

Agreeing with all of the above, try a plant and turn the bubbler back on.

Potted anubias are great for small tanks where you don't want to bother with substrate. I have to smaller tanks where I just leave the anubias in their pot and stick the pot in the gravel.
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Keep your water stable. Stable is good. Fish like stable.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Potted anubias are great for small tanks where you don't want to bother with substrate. I have to smaller tanks where I just leave the anubias in their pot and stick the pot in the gravel.
Be careful of the rockwool they use around the roots of the potted plants though - rockwool is basically mineral-soaked fiberglass and as such the fibers can detach and float around the tank till they attach to your fish and can really mess them up.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Why do you add aquarium salt? Really, the only thing you would want to add would be some tap water conditioner (like NovAqua).
To keep the water conditioned. When I set up the tank, I used the full dosage, but when I change the water I only put in a couple of grains to offset the difference in the water. Will it hurt him? Oh, I hope not! >.<
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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To keep the water conditioned. When I set up the tank, I used the full dosage, but when I change the water I only put in a couple of grains to offset the difference in the water. Will it hurt him? Oh, I hope not! >.<
It won't hurt him unless you overdose, but it looks like you've got nothing to worry about there. At the same time, you really don't need to dose it; salt helps rejuvenate gills, fins, and slime coats after an injury or sickness, but when a fish is healthy it really doesn't matter too much whether you add salt or not. By all means if you'd like to dose it solely because you have it and want to keep your fish happy then you may do it, but it really doesn't change anything whether you continue with it or stop, in my opinion.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It won't hurt him unless you overdose, but it looks like you've got nothing to worry about there. At the same time, you really don't need to dose it; salt helps rejuvenate gills, fins, and slime coats after an injury or sickness, but when a fish is healthy it really doesn't matter too much whether you add salt or not. By all means if you'd like to dose it solely because you have it and want to keep your fish happy then you may do it, but it really doesn't change anything whether you continue with it or stop, in my opinion.
Whew! That's a relief... I tend to worry a lot about him, so when I think I'm doing somethign wrong I panic!
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Can you post a pic of the whole setup? There may be something you're forgetting to mention because you've looked at it a thousand times and don't see it anymore. Happens to me all the time.

Another thought I had is whether you might have a solvent in there still from when you initially cleaned the tank?

Agreeing with all of the above, try a plant and turn the bubbler back on.

Potted anubias are great for small tanks where you don't want to bother with substrate. I have to smaller tanks where I just leave the anubias in their pot and stick the pot in the gravel.
OK, here's a picture. I hope it doesn't seem too crowded! And I'd never thought about the potted plant thing... That sounds like a good idea!

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

Your tank looks fab! The bubbles thing will probs raise your ph, like gtm2007 say. he knows what he's talking about.
live plants are your best bet for long term as they will do this job for you. I have java fern just like he recommended. I also have java moss its cool stuff as the fish move it about to make nests from one end of tank to the other. Down side it gets everywhere! lol
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

are all those plants plastic then?
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Your tank looks fab! The bubbles thing will probs raise your ph, like gtm2007 say. he knows what he's talking about.
live plants are your best bet for long term as they will do this job for you. I have java fern just like he recommended. I also have java moss its cool stuff as the fish move it about to make nests from one end of tank to the other. Down side it gets everywhere! lol
Thanks! I'm seriously thinking about getting a Java fern along with the bubble decoration, but I really need to read up on plant care! I've never heart of java moss, though... I'll look into that, too.

Oh, and to answer your other question: the short grass, the long kelp in the corner, and the reddish plants are soft rubbery plastic. All the others are silk. I'm really paranoid about him tearing his fins, so I actually spent several minutes in the store just feeling all the plants! The clerk looked at me like I was a nut...
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

lol! dont blame you. java fern needs no care that I can tell and speads out slowly new small leafs come up next to the planted ones, sometimes they sendout a root with a little leaf growing out and that latches into the gravel nearbye. Very hardy plant and you can easily take some root with leaf on and plant that else where in tank. The long roots anchor it down well. It does grow slow prob 4-6 months to get X2 size.
I have black plastic coated gravel made by marina for the same reason as I dint want my fish getting hurt.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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lol! dont blame you. java fern needs no care that I can tell and speads out slowly new small leafs come up next to the planted ones, sometimes they sendout a root with a little leaf growing out and that latches into the gravel nearbye. Very hardy plant and you can easily take some root with leaf on and plant that else where in tank. The long roots anchor it down well. It does grow slow prob 4-6 months to get X2 size.
I have black plastic coated gravel made by marina for the same reason as I dint want my fish getting hurt.
That's good to know! It looks like I'll be getting one anyway, because I really want the pH to even out soon without having to use pH Up... Besides, Braveheart LOVES plants. He'll probably be elated to get a new one! When we put the new fake plants into his tank, he spent two days just swimming among them and nipping at them. He gets mad if I move them around at all!
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: pH Fluctuation in Tank- HELP!

Braveheart, nice! Sounds like a prize fighter.

Plants require very little, especially java moss and fern, really they just need dirty gravel from fish poop and extra food, CO2 from fish breathing and the air above the tank, and light from the fluorescent fixture. Everything else save maybe a liquid plant food or some root fertilization tabs they leech out of the water. In return, they provide a more natural environment for your fish, help clarify the water, generate oxygen, and look really pretty.

And DON'T use pH Up or any other phosphate buffer - it does more harm than the pH shift itself.
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