New tropical community tank need some advice

[mrtoad1968]

Hi,

I am looking to set up 2 tanks (one for each daughter's room). For my younger daughter (she is 4) I am looking to setup a 29 gallon (Dimensions: 30 1/4"L x 12 1/2"W x 18 3/4"H). Both of them currently have a small Betta bowl. My younger daughter I was going to do a tropical community and will plan on her male Betta being added to that aquarium. I need help figuring out what else to put into this tank. I have had aquariums before, but not in some time.

Knowing her, she will like some of the small schooling fish such as neon tetras. She likes small things. Can I please have some suggestions on the following (I am sure more questions will follow):

1) Other fish that would work well in this tank filling out the top, middle and bottom.

2) How many fish is a good number to start with as well as how many fish can be put in an aquarium of that size if she sticks with mostly small fish such as the neons. I am think she would prefer lots of small fish rather than a smaller number of bigger fish.

3) I need to get a filter and heater so need some suggestions on what would be good choices. I am concerned about overall cost, so need to be money concious yet obviously want something that is going to do a good job.

4) What other things would I need to get? I plan on live plants. I want it to be as algae free as possible so anything else that can help that would be welcome

I am sure I will have more questions on this tank but for now that is it. I do want to try to keep cost down as I am setting up two tanks and want to not drive me wife crazy when she sees the charges. I am more concerned about the cost of the tank setup, the cost of the fish will be something separarte so not worried about it.

Thanks in advance!

[williemcd]

Not to take business from your local fish store, but if you can't find a 29G complete (hood/lights/filter/heater) for less than $50.00 on Craigs List ya ain't trying. If ya lived close, I'd sell ya one at the $50.00 mark.
Fish.. I prefer Cardinal Tets over Neons.. a full red belly and in my opinion hardier. Say a school of about 8. (Usually found on sale for a buck each).. For bottom?. I've a small school (8) of laser orange Cory's... Mid?. 3-4 Angels will complete the tank.
Plants... Dwarf sag's, crypts and vals are my favorites.
Bill in Va.

[holly12]

I agree with the Cardinal Tetras, and some Corys for the bottom (research the types, as some get to be 3+ inches) and they need 6+ to be happy.

I would not, however, put 3-4 Angelfish in a 29g tank. The minimum size for an Angel is 29g's and putting 3-4 in would waaaay overstock. Plus, Angelfish are a type of Cichlid and when they grow up, it wouldn't be a surprise if they ate your Cardinals.

Your daughter likes small... try the Chili Rasbora (a type of micro rasbora.) They are gorgeous! Bright red and blue. They need 6+, and if you have a school of those, a school of Cards and a school of Corys, you'd have a great set up! (Make sure your filter is rated for a tank larger than 29g's so that you can be assured the filtration will be enough for 3 schools of fish. You can't over filter water, but you can under filter it!)

I wouldn't put the Betta in with Cards or the Chili's as they are smaller and he may eat them. And, if he doesn't eat them, they may nip his fins. If you keep the Betta in a 5g tank with a heater (they need temps in the 80's) and a filter, he'll be fine on his own. You could add a few snails if you think his tank is boring.

Now, NONE of those fish are good for cycling a tank with. They are all sensitive and probably won't make it through the cycle. I'd do a fishless cycle: The Fishless Cycle. It's actually easier than cycling with fish, because you don't have to worry about any fish dying, you dont' have to do water changes during the cycle to keep the fish alive, it usually takes less time than cycling with fish (since you aren't doing water changes) and once the cycle is over you can stock a little faster than you could if you cycled with fish. (Not all at once, but more than normal. If you cycle with fish, you can only add 2-3 fish every 2 weeks or so, and with a fishless cycle you could probably add 4-6 each week and a half.) Keep an eye on ammonia levels to be sure they've hit 0ppm before adding more of course.

Here's a great thread on how to properly acclimate your fish when you get them: Drip acclimating fish. Sometimes improper acclimation can lead to death weeks or months later - it's not always soon after putting the fish in the tank. If you have a drip regulator (literally cents at a LFS) it's a bit easier than tying knots in the air tubing. (Floating fish in the bag doesn't acclimate the fish to the tank, it just makes the temp' regulate.)

As for plants, it depends on your lighting. Is it going to be a low lit tank or bright? if it's low light, you can do any hygro (giant, polysperma (dwarf), difformis (wisteria), sunset,) you can also do Elodea and hornwort (hornwort is a floating plant though.) Moss balls will work and java ferns will work as well, as will anubias. Java fern and Anubias need to be anchored to rock or wood - if you bury the rhizome, the plant will rot.

Fast growing plants are great, because they eat up a lot of ammonia and nitrate fast.

If you have a higher lit tank, you can get into more plants that have brighter colours - reds, pinks, oranges, etc...

[dshower]

Hi there. I am new to aquariums myself. But I have had a number of bettas. My advice is not to put the betta in with other fish. At the very least, he will get his fins nipped at....tetras are nippy fish...and it could lead to fin rot and general misery for the poor guy. As far as how many fish, a good rule of thumb is one square inch of fish per gallon. So if you have small fish, you can keep quite a few in a 29 gallon tank. I have guppies and tetras in my tank and everyone seems to get along well. As I said, I'm new to this myself and will defer to the experts on what other kinds of fish that may be good choices. I also have a couple Blue Mystery snails and I honestly think they are cooler than the fish. So maybe that might be something to think about too. Plus they help clean the tank. Good luck!

[mrtoad1968]

Thanks all for your suggestions. I do have a few questions from those answers

For the thoughts on a used tank from CG? I did look but did not find sizes I was looking for. If I do find one, is there concern about deseases or anything from a used tank?

Holly, On the 3 schools of the fish you mentioned, you said 6+. How many could the + get up to in a tank of that size? Honestly there are no mom and pop type shops near me, just the big guys like Petsmart and at least the people I spoke to there did not seem to know what they were talking about. I had asked about african cichlids for my other daughter who will be getting a 50 gal tank and asked how many I could put in there. This was when she showed me a tank which was much smaller filled with maybe 20 or so of one that she said were full grown and told me 5 so the math did not jive. Either they were not full grown what she showed me which she said they were or their tank was magically smaller... I still need to research those as I need to handle that tank too...

For the lighting, I was not sure. What is the best way to go in yours and others opinions here?

I will look into the drip method thread

Thank you all for answering!
Mike

[Razmear]

Originally Posted by mrtoad1968

For the thoughts on a used tank from CG? I did look but did not find sizes I was looking for. If I do find one, is there concern about deseases or anything from a used tank?

I got my 55gal from Craigslist, great deal for a complete setup. Think I paid about $80.
However in answering your question, the tanks lights, filter, and every other external crevice was infested with cockroaches. Not a pleasant surprise.
I ditched all the substrate and scrubbed out the tank completely, then had to dissemble all the lighting fixtures over the bathtub and crush all the buggers as the fell out before they could scurry up the sides, and give it all a good wipe down to get rid of egg sacks. The filter was the toughest to clean, lots of nooks and crannies on a hang on the back filter and kept finding more after I thought I had it clear. It was quite an adventure getting them all out, and not being able to use any chemicals as well.

So yes, there are things to look out for when buying used from craigslist, just thought I'd bring up the one thing you wouldn't normally expect to worry about when buying a used fishtank.

Good luck with your quest.
eb

[mrtoad1968]

thanks. I am thinking I will go new but will be thinking about it. That scared me

[holly12]

When I say 6+ it means they need at least 6 to be happy, and the more you can add with out overstocking, the happier they will be.

So... in a 29g I would do at least 6 of each of the schools. If you ever get a tank larger than 29g, bump it up to 7-9 of each. (Apparently odd numbers work best I've been told.) I have a school of 9 Harlequin Rasboras in my 36g and did have 7 Corys, but one died, so it's now at 6.

IF you have a filter rated for a tank larger than a 29g (say a filter for a 50g) and you stock the tank with as many live plants as you can afford and as will fit in the tank, you could probably bump each school to 7. That would be 21 fish in a 29g tank, which is pushing it, but with extra filtration, a heavily planted tank and diligent water changes, you should be ok. The reason I think you'd be okay, is because the Chili Rasboras are seriously tiny! If your daugher loves small things, she will LOVE those! Soooo small, so cute and super colourful! (Don't add all the fish at once obviously.)

[luananeko]

On the bettas not being ok in the community tank bit... I've kept bettas in community tanks for almost my whole life and very rarely have problems with it. It really depends on the bettas personality as well as the other inhabitants. I've kept male bettas with neons, danios, and rasboras, and never once saw them take nips at each other. Heck, my current boy lives with 6 other male guppies, despite the common rule about betta males liking to kill them on sight. He's never once even flared at them, but he flares at his own reflection constantly. Go figure

Do you know what type of betta you have (veils are the most common big box fish store ones, but Petco has a lot the crowntails, deltas, halfmoons, plakats, etc)? If you have a plakat male then he won't have as much finnage, so you'll have less of a chance of the other fish nipping at him. If you want to see if they'll cooperate, keep a 5g tank ready as a backup plan. Keep a close eye on them and watch for signs that they aren't getting on, such as the betta chasing the others, or vice versa. Watch his tail and make sure he's not getting any unexplained notches taken out when you're not looking. If you don't see any problems after a week, you should be home free. If they don't get on, move the betta back into the 5g and let him have his own space.

That said, be careful about the tetras you get from the big box stores. I've had notoriously rotten luck with the tetras I've gotten from my local Petsmart. They seem to get their stock from tetra breeders with seriously inbred lines and are highly sensitive to stress, water levels, with high disease rate, etc. I've lost track how many of my neons either dropped dead for no apparent reason or simply vanished. I haven't tried their cardinals though, so hopefully they're a little hardier. The neons I get from the specialty fish store near me are usually fine though.

[mrtoad1968]

thanks both

i will def look at keeping to the 6 to 7 and no more. I don't want to hurt anything. And yes she loves tiny.

on the purchasing of fish from the big stores, I unfortunately don't have any mom and pops near me anymore. Are there any recommended places on-line I could purchase from (never have done that, last tank I had was before I had internet )

Thanks!

[holly12]

Lots of people on here have used Aquabid and Ebay to find fish. The Cardinals you could probably find at Petsmart... I know they have Neons... which are almost the same, but Cardinals get slightly larger and have a complete red belly, where as Neons are slightly smaller and only have half a red belly.

[luananeko]

Online-wise, LiveAquaria.com is supposedly good, I haven't tried them myself. Otherwise, Aquabid and Ebay are your best friends. I think FosterAquatic might have live fish as well, you'd have to check. Thankfully I've been lucky enough to have some really nice LFSes outside of the big box places, so I haven't checked into many of the online sources.