How do you know if your water is hard or soft? My test kit only does ph, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Is there another test kit?

yes

On is the carbonate hardness or KH

the other is general hardness or gh.


I have found that using peat moss in my substrate keeps kh at 4 degrees and gh at 9 degrees in my planted tanks. But with just sand both hardnesses rose to very high levels and neon tetras did not do well.

KH i think is the negative ions like carbonate and general hardness is the positive ions like calcium and magnesium.

I personally feel they are much more important then the actual pH values or at least seem so with my planted techniques. But those techniques do result in high pH values.

API has test kits for both seperately or as a combination kit with both included.


my .02

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fw leiden since 1979, fo salt since 1979, mixed reef 55g 2002-2009. Strong emphasis on the tank taking care of itself. Balanced with plant life, no water changes, tap water, no filters in FW. Only dosing calcium, alk, mag in marine reef tanks. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-...ods-26410.html
recent tanks (till 2009) 7 years- 10g FW leiden 7 yrs, 55g mixed reef 7, 2 yrs, 20g FW leiden, 10 g fw leiden , 29g mixed reef, current tank 55g leiden

there is another test kit that has Kh and gh i believe is what they are....one tests the water hardness and the other is something like the stability of your ph, at least thats how i understand it

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Tank
125g african cichlids making it work
75g rimless Reef in progress

API sells a good KH and GH 2-in-1 testing kit for about $5. I go to Pet Supplies - Pet Supply Store - Pet Products | PetMountain.com to buy mine

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Officially fishless until after the move....tune in later for details!

I agree with Gizmo, I bought my API test kit for that around 8$, which is what I would suggest for you to get. They make good quality stuff, and my test kit from them works great! I'm pretty sure a test kits the best way to go;)

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29 Gallon Tank
1 Betta
2 Peppered Cory Catfish
3 Glow Light Tetras
3 Jumbo Neon Tetras
3 Rasboras

So, I have the master kit for ph, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Now I'll buy these... Is there any other tests I need?

While test kits are fun and interesting there is IMHO a dirty little secret.

With "my" planted tanks they are totally unecessary.

but go ahead and get the kits so you can see what's happening.


for instance my pH is measured very high yet fish like tetras and hatchetfish the are reported to need low pH lived for years and years.


But what the heck. You can now say you measured all that stuff.

my .02

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fw leiden since 1979, fo salt since 1979, mixed reef 55g 2002-2009. Strong emphasis on the tank taking care of itself. Balanced with plant life, no water changes, tap water, no filters in FW. Only dosing calcium, alk, mag in marine reef tanks. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-...ods-26410.html
recent tanks (till 2009) 7 years- 10g FW leiden 7 yrs, 55g mixed reef 7, 2 yrs, 20g FW leiden, 10 g fw leiden , 29g mixed reef, current tank 55g leiden

I agree with Bob that if you are very confident in your methods you can get away without testing, but I always love seeing what my tanks are up to.

I would say aside from the Master FW Test Kit and the GH+KH test kit, I would get a Phosphate test kit as well. It comes in handy if you're dealing with elevated phosphates in your tap water like I am, and run the risk of a cyano outbreak.

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Officially fishless until after the move....tune in later for details!

Ya get the kits. What these expert s forget,kits help make noobs experts. I age e kits are not as nessary when you are an expert.

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100 Dirt + Stuff. To be Angel baby tank.
37 Planted. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f45/pla...nal-20774.html
29 Tall community tank. 5+ Years up and running.
15 Soon to be RCS tank.

Cyano is not algae and doesn't come from elevated phosphates.

hmmmmmmmmmm

low nitrates low ammonia plus phosphates-cyano.

least that's what I have heard.

still just my .02



ps cyano can get its nitrogen from the dissolved nitrogen gas in the water.

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fw leiden since 1979, fo salt since 1979, mixed reef 55g 2002-2009. Strong emphasis on the tank taking care of itself. Balanced with plant life, no water changes, tap water, no filters in FW. Only dosing calcium, alk, mag in marine reef tanks. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-...ods-26410.html
recent tanks (till 2009) 7 years- 10g FW leiden 7 yrs, 55g mixed reef 7, 2 yrs, 20g FW leiden, 10 g fw leiden , 29g mixed reef, current tank 55g leiden

Not low nitrates....nitrate deficiency. Big difference. I will agree that excess nutrients can help bring it about. But...high phosphates by itself does not cause cyano.

Water with a high ph (>7.5) is usually hard. Water with a low ph (<6.5) is usually soft. Hardness is caused by the presence of Calcium or Maganese in the water. These ions get into the water from contact with limestone. The high ph is the result of the Carbonate in the limestone.

Usually is the operative word.

I have tanks with high pH (8.4-8.8 api high range test kit) but only 4 degrees kH. Which is the same hardness of my cycling tanks that initially had a pH of 7 or less.

General hardness is caused by calcium and mag as you stated. Carbonate ions determines the carbonate hardness (KH).

pH is a function of carbon dioxide, carbonate ions which control the H+ and OH- ions and hence pH. It is entirely possible to have hard or soft water and any pH value depending on carbon dioxide.

So IMHO if you "worry" about hardness it is best to buy kh and gh test kits and not rely on pH alone. While related, they really are different measurements that can only be tied together by assumptions which may or may not apply to any individual aquarium. Best to not make assumptions.


my .02

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fw leiden since 1979, fo salt since 1979, mixed reef 55g 2002-2009. Strong emphasis on the tank taking care of itself. Balanced with plant life, no water changes, tap water, no filters in FW. Only dosing calcium, alk, mag in marine reef tanks. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-...ods-26410.html
recent tanks (till 2009) 7 years- 10g FW leiden 7 yrs, 55g mixed reef 7, 2 yrs, 20g FW leiden, 10 g fw leiden , 29g mixed reef, current tank 55g leiden

But, Ph is not driven by the amount of CO2 in your water. It is a factor, but you can still have a very low ph, say 6.0, and have zero CO2 in your water. As close to zero as you can come anyway. Water will gain some CO2 just from surface interaction with the air.

Actually pH, carbonate, and so on is determined only by the co2 in the water. Which of course is affected by the co2 in the surrounding air and the conditions in the tank itself especially carbonate and tank consumption of co2 (like plant action)

googleing

from:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

we get the following equation:
CO2 + H2O <> H2CO3


Which forms carbonate acid

And:

H2CO3 <> H+ + HCO3- <> 2H+ +


which adds h+ or lowers the ph.

and plant action under light:

6CO2 + 6H2O + light <> C6H12O6 (carbohydrate) + 6O2


which lowers co2.

Although the article is for reef aquariums the same exact equations and interactions occur in FW aquariums as well IME.

So there is a lot of interactions between plant action, aeriation, hardness, surrounding co2, added co2, and so on.

On my uncirculated open top FW aquariums pH rises from under 7 to 8.4-8.8 while KH remains at 4 degrees when I have peat moss in the substrate. My marine tanks had pH rise from 7.5 to 8.4+ after adding macro algaes. I eventually had to dose calcium/mag/baking soda when KH dropped down in the marine tanks.

IMHO one need not worry about any actual pH value but take it as an indicator of possible other things going on. Afterall a high pH value because the tank is a net consumer of co2 (fish and surrounding area) and producer of oxygen each day would hardly be harmful to the fish.

my .02

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fw leiden since 1979, fo salt since 1979, mixed reef 55g 2002-2009. Strong emphasis on the tank taking care of itself. Balanced with plant life, no water changes, tap water, no filters in FW. Only dosing calcium, alk, mag in marine reef tanks. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-...ods-26410.html
recent tanks (till 2009) 7 years- 10g FW leiden 7 yrs, 55g mixed reef 7, 2 yrs, 20g FW leiden, 10 g fw leiden , 29g mixed reef, current tank 55g leiden

Some of that may crossover to fw, but not all of it. Just a guess, but funny how it is constanly mentioned that they are talking about sw and never mentions (that I saw) that it is applicable to salt as well as fresh.

The fact still remains that you can have a very low ph, without having high levels of CO2 in the water. Plants consume CO2, but they are not very efficient at it and I have read that it is 10x more difficult for them to utilize it, as shown by how well aquatic plants grow when grown emmersed. Your article states that a higher ph is driven by a higher alkalinity, not carbonate alkalinity, but alkalanity. Actual quote is "The higher the alkalinity, the higher the pH"

that's because in the marine environment alk means carbonate alk and the same exact test kit is used. GH is meaningless because the calcium/mag are 400ppm/1350ppm in marine tank which swamps the gh used for FW tanks.

but the same exact equations and test kits apply to our FW kh, and pH.

my .02

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fw leiden since 1979, fo salt since 1979, mixed reef 55g 2002-2009. Strong emphasis on the tank taking care of itself. Balanced with plant life, no water changes, tap water, no filters in FW. Only dosing calcium, alk, mag in marine reef tanks. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-...ods-26410.html
recent tanks (till 2009) 7 years- 10g FW leiden 7 yrs, 55g mixed reef 7, 2 yrs, 20g FW leiden, 10 g fw leiden , 29g mixed reef, current tank 55g leiden

To the original poster, personally I think ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests are very helpful for a beginner. Unless you have a specific reason (like you keeping fish with particular requirements) or you enjoy playing with kits one that tells you water hardness is probably just going to be confusing and you don't need it. Do basic good tank maintenance and you'll be fine.