Air Pump Queries...Please Help

ClinicaTerra · 07-14-2011, 11:05 PM

I recently swapped out my Tetra Whisper 60 pump for my 60 gallon fancy goldfish tank for what I perceived to be a more powerful Top Fin AIR 8000 model. I did the switch because it seemed to me the Tetra was either dying or suffering from a punctured or broken diaphragm, based on the few bubbles my 48 inch Marineland flexible bubble wand was putting out; but when I hooked the Top Fin up, even under maximum output setting on the adjustable dial, there's still a bit of a lack of bubbles coming from my wand...I mean, they're better than with the Tetra, but over time they have again gone down in output to the point there's just a trickle from certain areas of the wand. There's nothing clogging the pores of the wand.

The Top Fin AIR 8000 has FOUR output valves, but I am only using ONE of these to feed one bubble wand -- I read online somewhere that each of these valves supposedly is enough for around 10 gallons individually or so, whatever that means, and so I'm wondering if the reason why I'm only getting trickles out of my wand is because I'm not using the full capacity power of the pump. If this is the case, what do I do with the three "open" valves of the pump, being that I only need one? Is it true that if there are other valves not being used on a pump, this could possibly be "wasted" air pump power if using just one output...or do I have this wrong?

Help, someone, please!

Mushtang · 07-15-2011, 08:31 AM

First, have you verified that your air lines don't have any water in them? If your pump was below your tank it's a good bet that you've got some. Pull the air line off the pump and blow into it with your mouth and see if you're getting more bubbles. If not, that's your problem. If you unplug the air line from your air pump and water starts flowing out of the line, that's another indication of that problem. Go buy a set of one way valves.

I'd highly recommend getting one way valves in all air lines, installed near the top of the tank in the back. Then it won't matter where your air pump is located, or even if it's unplugged.

But... if that's not your problem, then it might be your pump. I recently opened up a Whisper 60 that wasn't working very well and saw that the diaphragms were ripped. It was easy enough to take them off and I found a repair kit online for relatively cheap that included new diaphragms, seals, intake filter, etc. So I was able to fix it myself.

The biggest thing I learned was that on a Whisper 60, which has 2 outlets, was that each one was independent with it's own diaphragm, so essentially it was two pumps in the same housing. Closing one outlet would NOT cause more air to come out of the other.

So after you check your air lines for water, get a screw driver and open up the air pump and see what it's like inside. Check to see if the diaphragms are still okay and also figure out the relationship of the outlets.

ClinicaTerra · 07-15-2011, 11:45 AM

Hey Mushtang,

Thank you for the reply; let me address your statements individually below...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushtang

First, have you verified that your air lines don't have any water in them? If your pump was below your tank it's a good bet that you've got some. Pull the air line off the pump and blow into it with your mouth and see if you're getting more bubbles. If not, that's your problem. If you unplug the air line from your air pump and water starts flowing out of the line, that's another indication of that problem. Go buy a set of one way valves.

My pump is below my tank, but there's no water in the line when I remove the tubing from the pump -- further, I tried the blowing into the tubing thing many times and I can't get any bubbles to come out that way either. Very weird.

Quote:

I'd highly recommend getting one way valves in all air lines, installed near the top of the tank in the back. Then it won't matter where your air pump is located, or even if it's unplugged.

Are you referring to a "check valve"? If so, I have one that came with my bubble wand, but haven't installed it. I don't think the positioning of my pump is the problem.

Quote:

But... if that's not your problem, then it might be your pump. I recently opened up a Whisper 60 that wasn't working very well and saw that the diaphragms were ripped. It was easy enough to take them off and I found a repair kit online for relatively cheap that included new diaphragms, seals, intake filter, etc. So I was able to fix it myself.

I had a Whisper 60 prior to this Top Fin AIR-8000, and it too didn't push much bubbles either through a Top Fin series of wands or the Marineland flexible wand I have now -- I don't have the patience to repair one of these things on my own, so I just went out and got the Top Fin for like $25; apparently, it was the best one they make, good for tanks up to 180 gallons or something like that. I figured this was fine, as I have a 60...

Quote:

The biggest thing I learned was that on a Whisper 60, which has 2 outlets, was that each one was independent with it's own diaphragm, so essentially it was two pumps in the same housing. Closing one outlet would NOT cause more air to come out of the other.

This is very interesting -- I actually tried this experiment last night with the old Whisper 60. I cut enough tubing to create a "double feed" from the two outlets, which then fed into one outlet via a "T bar" valve...this then fed into the main tubing going to the bubble wand. When I did this, there were no more bubbles than before; in fact, maybe even LESS. I tried an experiment with the Top Fin pump too -- which has FOUR outlets -- in which I tried putting my fingers over the open outlets while one fed the tubing for my wand. Again, no difference in bubble output.

I don't understand what's going on here; in theory, closing these output valves that are going unused on a pump should create more output from the outlet you ARE using, shouldn't it? I actually took the wand out and wiped it free of any gunk or diatoms that may have been blocking some pores, and lo and behold, more bubbles starting coming out when the Top Fin pump was on max flow -- BUT, one side of the wand is STILL not giving full output, with just trickles coming from the end of it...I don't understand this. The pump's on max output, the wand is clean...why don't I get full blast of bubbles?

This leads me to the issue that has been bothering me since I got the new Top Fin pump -- if I buy a pump that has two or more outlets for connecting tubing but I only need ONE to connect one single bubble wand to, does it matter that there will be "idling" valves that aren't being used? Does this matter? The problem is all the high powered pumps have multiple outlets on them, but while I need the power of the pumps, I don't need all the outlets -- do the unused valve outlets have to be covered, as we have been discussing, so that the one I use gets the full output from all of them?

Quote:

So after you check your air lines for water, get a screw driver and open up the air pump and see what it's like inside. Check to see if the diaphragms are still okay and also figure out the relationship of the outlets.

This new pump is only a couple of weeks old -- I seriously doubt the diaphragms are shot already. At any rate, I'm thinking of just returning this pump today back to PetSmart and getting a $45 or so Rena they had there (but was out of stock last time I was there); do you recommend the Renas?

Mushtang · 07-15-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra

My pump is below my tank, but there's no water in the line when I remove the tubing from the pump -- further, I tried the blowing into the tubing thing many times and I can't get any bubbles to come out that way either. Very weird.

If you can't blow air through the stone with your mouth, there's something blocking your hose or stone. Pull it all out and check it, replace the hose if you need to, etc. Make sure there's not a pinch in your line too.

Quote:

Are you referring to a "check valve"? If so, I have one that came with my bubble wand, but haven't installed it. I don't think the positioning of my pump is the problem.

Yes, the check valve. Even if you don't think it's needed, put it in. If your pump is below the tank, you will come home one day to a very wet floor because your air pump failed, or maybe the power went out to the house for a few hours.

Quote:

I cut enough tubing to create a "double feed" from the two outlets, which then fed into one outlet via a "T bar" valve...this then fed into the main tubing going to the bubble wand. When I did this, there were no more bubbles than before; in fact, maybe even LESS.

I'm not 100% sure that the pump outlets have check valves internal to them, but if not all that would be happening with your connection is you'd be pushing air back and forth across the T and very little would come out. That wouldn't mean the pump has a problem, nor would it show that it's okay.

Quote:

I don't understand what's going on here; in theory, closing these output valves that are going unused on a pump should create more output from the outlet you ARE using, shouldn't it?

No, not if the pump you're using is like the Whisper 60. The outlets are connected to completely separate diaphragms, and the airflow from one isn't related to the flow from the other at all.

Quote:

This leads me to the issue that has been bothering me since I got the new Top Fin pump -- if I buy a pump that has two or more outlets for connecting tubing but I only need ONE to connect one single bubble wand to, does it matter that there will be "idling" valves that aren't being used? Does this matter? The problem is all the high powered pumps have multiple outlets on them, but while I need the power of the pumps, I don't need all the outlets -- do the unused valve outlets have to be covered, as we have been discussing, so that the one I use gets the full output from all of them?

I don't know what the inside of your new pump looks like, so I can't answer that. If they're like the pump I described above then blocking one outlet wouldn't make any difference to the other outlet.

Quote:

do you recommend the Renas?

I don't know anything about them. Sorry.

Digitalrebl · 07-15-2011, 04:25 PM

I have the same pump you have and had the same issue...see...since this pump has more than one outlet...they are all "on". So when tubing is connected, the air will out try to escape thru the path of least resistance which are the other openings with nothing connected.

Turn the pump on and plug the other holes with your fingers and you'll see the air in the tube coming out stronger. What I did to alleviate was a DIY deal..basically I cut 2" strips of tubing and heated, OK burned, one end till it semi melted the used pliers to squish the end together to create a seal. Then just simply connected the other end to the unused outlets. Fixed'er right up!

This worked for me and hopefully it helps you...later!

DR

ClinicaTerra · 07-16-2011, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushtang

If you can't blow air through the stone with your mouth, there's something blocking your hose or stone. Pull it all out and check it, replace the hose if you need to, etc. Make sure there's not a pinch in your line too.

Yes, the check valve. Even if you don't think it's needed, put it in. If your pump is below the tank, you will come home one day to a very wet floor because your air pump failed, or maybe the power went out to the house for a few hours.

I'm not 100% sure that the pump outlets have check valves internal to them, but if not all that would be happening with your connection is you'd be pushing air back and forth across the T and very little would come out. That wouldn't mean the pump has a problem, nor would it show that it's okay.

No, not if the pump you're using is like the Whisper 60. The outlets are connected to completely separate diaphragms, and the airflow from one isn't related to the flow from the other at all.

I don't know what the inside of your new pump looks like, so I can't answer that. If they're like the pump I described above then blocking one outlet wouldn't make any difference to the other outlet.

I don't know anything about them. Sorry.

Well, here's an update -- I went to PetSmart and returned the Top Fin pump for a Tetra Whisper 100 which they had one of in stock. I figured I would try the most powerful Whisper, as a last ditch try for Tetra, and see how that would work. The Tetra was actually on sale, so the "upsell" price I had to pay from the Top Fin to the Tetra was only like 9 bucks.

Anyway, got home and read the instructions for the Whisper 100 -- it actually stated that for installations requiring only one source of air, a T-Bar can be used to combine the outputs of the dual valves on this pump. This was exactly what I have been asking with regard to "doubling" the output of these pumps by bridging their valves for one master output (my situation dictates that I only need one airline tubing run to connect to the bubble wand). Thus, I hooked two pieces of tubing coming off the dual valve outputs of the Whisper 100 to a T-Bar connector, and then fed that to the bubble wand line. My tank is FULL of hard-charging, rapidly explosive bubbles from this wand now -- exactly what I was looking for...it took a couple of hours, but the entire wand is giving off ribbons of blasting bubbles now. I don't know if perhaps I got two bad pumps in a row (the Whisper 60 first and then the Top Fin) or that my tank size required a pump like the Whisper 100, but everything is working fine for now.

I will keep you all posted because this wouldn't be the first time I was fooled on the first day of setting a pump up -- for all I know, tomorrow morning can bring a barely bubbling wand...

ClinicaTerra · 07-16-2011, 12:42 AM

Thanks Digital...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalrebl

I have the same pump you have and had the same issue...see...since this pump has more than one outlet...they are all "on". So when tubing is connected, the air will out try to escape thru the path of least resistance which are the other openings with nothing connected.

What I suspected -- because I could feel the air blasting from all the open valves...

Quote:

Turn the pump on and plug the other holes with your fingers and you'll see the air in the tube coming out stronger.

This actually didn't happen in my setup -- which I found very strange; when I plugged the other outlets with my fingers, it didn't seem to force more bubbles through the wand...

No matter; I didn't like that Top Fin pump AT ALL -- the noise and vibrations this thing put off were driving us bonkers, and even the rubber feet from the pump all fell off and wouldn't go back in. What a POS this thing is; last time I buy anything from PetSmart's house brand.

Thanks for your assistance; I'll keep you posted as to what's going on with my new Tetra Whisper 100.

ClinicaTerra · 07-18-2011, 10:42 PM

UPDATE:

Okay guys -- I have had my Tetra Whisper 100 pump running for a good few days now, and what I feared would happen based on what I read about this pump (Amazon reviews, etc.) is beginning to happen: While a very forceful stream of bubbles, nearly blinding, were flying out of my wand the first few days from this pump, now I can easily see the bubble patterns getting weaker and weaker, to the point that there are empty non-bubbling gaps in the wand, and this will eventually lead to little to no bubbles coming out (something I know from experience)...

I was really hoping that the first two pumps I tried -- a Tetra Whisper 60 and Top Fin AIR-8000 -- were simply defective somehow and that I finally stumbled on a good one with this 100 model. But just like most owners have reported, after a good solid few days, the pump is already beginning to weaken in output, and that's WITH a "doubled up" output from both dual valves into one T Bar configuration to feed my single bubble wand line...

What is going on here? Are these pumps only supposed to last just a few DAYS? Can the diaphragms be going already? Why does every pump I buy start out strong in terms of air output, but slowly get weaker and weaker to the point bubbles are just dribbling out of the wand? Can debris be landing in this wand that quickly after a cleaning? Could this have something to do with the positioning of the pump, where I have it below the tank, actually behind it a bit? Could this restrict airflow?

At this point, should I just cave and get an expensive Rena or some other brand?

pjones · 07-18-2011, 11:15 PM

I dunno what's going on with your pumps. I have a whisper 20 that I think it to strong. Sounds like there is some sort of problem with your set up, bad check valve or something pluged up in the line or the bubble wand/bar

ClinicaTerra · 07-18-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjones

I dunno what's going on with your pumps. I have a whisper 20 that I think it to strong. Sounds like there is some sort of problem with your set up, bad check valve or something pluged up in the line or the bubble wand/bar

Well thank you, 'jones, but that's a little disheartening!

I'm stumped as much as you are -- it seems no matter what pump I connect to this tank, they don't last; the same thing is happening with my horrendous diatom affliction (I have actually stumped professional hobbyists in this field with my issues) but I'll get to that in a separate post...

I don't know what could be wrong with my setup, seriously -- the Marineland 48" flexible wand is connected to plastic airline tubing, which is running to the pump(s)...what can go wrong? There's nothing inbetween, and nothing to break the flow; the strangest thing is, these pumps start off strong and powerful, giving a lot of bubbles through the wand, and then slowly they die down...so how can this be the wand? How can it get so jammed up with gunk so quickly?

This isn't the only wand that has done this as well -- the first one I had was a series of Top Fin connectable wands stuck to the rear glass with the provided suction cups, and after awhile, the bubbles failed to come out of those, as well. Could it be the diatom algae in my tank stuffing these up?

I can't believe your Tetra put out more air than you could stand; I wish I had that situation! Also, for the record, I don't have a check valve installed in the line...

Thanks for your input, at any rate.

BTW -- I see your from Sarasota. How's everything going down there with the news of Casey Anthony getting out of jail? Are you far from Orlando?

susankat · 07-19-2011, 02:17 AM

It may not be the pumps but the wand maybe getting clogged, take it out and try soaking in a little vinegar and water for a couple of hours, rinse and put back into the tank.

ClinicaTerra · 07-20-2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susankat

It may not be the pumps but the wand maybe getting clogged, take it out and try soaking in a little vinegar and water for a couple of hours, rinse and put back into the tank.

Hi Susan,

Thanks for the feedback. Indeed, I have been thinking it has been the wands and bubblers themselves, but this happens too quickly once I put new wands in, and in this last instance, I did in fact remove the wand itself and wash it down to remove debris before putting it back in...and this was right before I connected the new Tetra Whisper pump.

However -- I did not try the vinegar and water method.

07-14-2011, 11:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
ClinicaTerra Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 433 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 6 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Air Pump Queries...Please Help I recently swapped out my Tetra Whisper 60 pump for my 60 gallon fancy goldfish tank for what I perceived to be a more powerful Top Fin AIR 8000 model. I did the switch because it seemed to me the Tetra was either dying or suffering from a punctured or broken diaphragm, based on the few bubbles my 48 inch Marineland flexible bubble wand was putting out; but when I hooked the Top Fin up, even under maximum output setting on the adjustable dial, there's still a bit of a lack of bubbles coming from my wand...I mean, they're better than with the Tetra, but over time they have again gone down in output to the point there's just a trickle from certain areas of the wand. There's nothing clogging the pores of the wand. The Top Fin AIR 8000 has FOUR output valves, but I am only using ONE of these to feed one bubble wand -- I read online somewhere that each of these valves supposedly is enough for around 10 gallons individually or so, whatever that means, and so I'm wondering if the reason why I'm only getting trickles out of my wand is because I'm not using the full capacity power of the pump. If this is the case, what do I do with the three "open" valves of the pump, being that I only need one? Is it true that if there are other valves not being used on a pump, this could possibly be "wasted" air pump power if using just one output...or do I have this wrong? Help, someone, please! __________________ FUJIMOTO 60-GALLON RECTANGULAR - BLACK OAK STAND & FULL CANOPY - AQUEON GLASS VERSA-TOP (24"X1) & FLUORESCENT LIGHT STRIP - MARINELAND PERFECTO GLASS CANOPY (24"X1) AQUEON QUIETFLOW 55 325GPH (1) - HAGEN AQUACLEAR A-620/110 500GPH (1) RENA AIR 400 (1) - TETRA WHISPER 60 AIR PUMP (1) - PETCO BUBBLE BARS (18"X2) RED CAP ORANDA (1) - CHOCOLATE/GOLD FANTAIL (1) - CALICO RYUKIN (1) - NEW! - ]RED/ORANGE RYUKIN (1) - NEW!

07-15-2011, 08:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mushtang Mushtang's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 39 Name: Joe Location: Buford, GA My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 4 Times Said "Thanks" 7 Times Was Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Air Pump Queries...Please Help First, have you verified that your air lines don't have any water in them? If your pump was below your tank it's a good bet that you've got some. Pull the air line off the pump and blow into it with your mouth and see if you're getting more bubbles. If not, that's your problem. If you unplug the air line from your air pump and water starts flowing out of the line, that's another indication of that problem. Go buy a set of one way valves. I'd highly recommend getting one way valves in all air lines, installed near the top of the tank in the back. Then it won't matter where your air pump is located, or even if it's unplugged. But... if that's not your problem, then it might be your pump. I recently opened up a Whisper 60 that wasn't working very well and saw that the diaphragms were ripped. It was easy enough to take them off and I found a repair kit online for relatively cheap that included new diaphragms, seals, intake filter, etc. So I was able to fix it myself. The biggest thing I learned was that on a Whisper 60, which has 2 outlets, was that each one was independent with it's own diaphragm, so essentially it was two pumps in the same housing. Closing one outlet would NOT cause more air to come out of the other. So after you check your air lines for water, get a screw driver and open up the air pump and see what it's like inside. Check to see if the diaphragms are still okay and also figure out the relationship of the outlets.

07-15-2011, 04:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Digitalrebl Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 9 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 14 Times Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	Re: Air Pump Queries...Please Help I have the same pump you have and had the same issue...see...since this pump has more than one outlet...they are all "on". So when tubing is connected, the air will out try to escape thru the path of least resistance which are the other openings with nothing connected. Turn the pump on and plug the other holes with your fingers and you'll see the air in the tube coming out stronger. What I did to alleviate was a DIY deal..basically I cut 2" strips of tubing and heated, OK burned, one end till it semi melted the used pliers to squish the end together to create a seal. Then just simply connected the other end to the unused outlets. Fixed'er right up! This worked for me and hopefully it helps you...later! DR

07-18-2011, 10:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
ClinicaTerra Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 433 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 0 Times Said "Thanks" 6 Times Was Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Air Pump Queries...Please Help UPDATE: Okay guys -- I have had my Tetra Whisper 100 pump running for a good few days now, and what I feared would happen based on what I read about this pump (Amazon reviews, etc.) is beginning to happen: While a very forceful stream of bubbles, nearly blinding, were flying out of my wand the first few days from this pump, now I can easily see the bubble patterns getting weaker and weaker, to the point that there are empty non-bubbling gaps in the wand, and this will eventually lead to little to no bubbles coming out (something I know from experience)... I was really hoping that the first two pumps I tried -- a Tetra Whisper 60 and Top Fin AIR-8000 -- were simply defective somehow and that I finally stumbled on a good one with this 100 model. But just like most owners have reported, after a good solid few days, the pump is already beginning to weaken in output, and that's WITH a "doubled up" output from both dual valves into one T Bar configuration to feed my single bubble wand line... What is going on here? Are these pumps only supposed to last just a few DAYS? Can the diaphragms be going already? Why does every pump I buy start out strong in terms of air output, but slowly get weaker and weaker to the point bubbles are just dribbling out of the wand? Can debris be landing in this wand that quickly after a cleaning? Could this have something to do with the positioning of the pump, where I have it below the tank, actually behind it a bit? Could this restrict airflow? At this point, should I just cave and get an expensive Rena or some other brand? __________________ FUJIMOTO 60-GALLON RECTANGULAR - BLACK OAK STAND & FULL CANOPY - AQUEON GLASS VERSA-TOP (24"X1) & FLUORESCENT LIGHT STRIP - MARINELAND PERFECTO GLASS CANOPY (24"X1) AQUEON QUIETFLOW 55 325GPH (1) - HAGEN AQUACLEAR A-620/110 500GPH (1) RENA AIR 400 (1) - TETRA WHISPER 60 AIR PUMP (1) - PETCO BUBBLE BARS (18"X2) RED CAP ORANDA (1) - CHOCOLATE/GOLD FANTAIL (1) - CALICO RYUKIN (1) - NEW! - ]RED/ORANGE RYUKIN (1) - NEW!

07-18-2011, 11:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
pjones pjones's Photo Gallery Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 250 Name: Phillip Location: Sarasota FL My location Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 251 Times Said "Thanks" 38 Times Was Thanked 79 Times in 77 Posts	Re: Air Pump Queries...Please Help I dunno what's going on with your pumps. I have a whisper 20 that I think it to strong. Sounds like there is some sort of problem with your set up, bad check valve or something pluged up in the line or the bubble wand/bar

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07-19-2011, 02:17 AM	#11 (permalink)
susankat Pleco n bn breeder n BOSS susankat's Photo Gallery Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,416 Name: Susan Location: Tulsa, Ok Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Welcome to Aquarium Forum" 2,082 Times Said "Thanks" 1,610 Times Was Thanked 1,808 Times in 1,549 Posts	Re: Air Pump Queries...Please Help It may not be the pumps but the wand maybe getting clogged, take it out and try soaking in a little vinegar and water for a couple of hours, rinse and put back into the tank. __________________ SUCCESS IS MEASURED BY YEARS, NOT MONTHS!!! 220 Tank build http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/sta...late-3253.html

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