I used to be a snake owner for about 10 years and the one thing that always baffled me was Petsmart's cruelty-free policy. They refuse to sell feeder mice and rats because they claim that feeding live mice and rats to snakes is cruel. Once I asked an employee what I was supposed to feed my snakes he replied with "we carry frozen mice and rats". After I got home I Googled this and they way they freeze them is to gas them with co2 and then freeze them. In my book that is cruel.
Now to make my point...
Petsmart won't sell feeder mice and rats because it is "cruel", BUT they sell feeder fish(which they have thousands of in every store). They also sell feeder crickets. How is this different? Do only warm blooded animals suffer? I cannot for the life of me figure this out. Maybe someone has a different POV.

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75 Gallon Planted

To me it just seems like a marketing avenue. IMO most people probably don't see selling feeder fish as cruel because well people eat fish. And as for the feeder crickets most people dislike bugs and just kill them on site (look at spiders). Many people I would imagine see the fish and crickets as not cruel because it is a part of that world, but a lot of people see mice as pets so petsmart wants to be able to sell mice to people who see them as pets and they also have an option for those who see mice as food (even though they aren't alive.

Basically

It is a marketing ploy

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I think it's cruel to feed live fish to other fish.... but then, sometimes that's the only thing that some fish will eat. I personally wouldn't want to do it, so I don't buy fish that need to be fed live fish.

As for crickets and worms.... well, I've owned many reptiles and amphibians over the years, and they did have to be fed those bugs. I always felt bad for the bugs, but it's what the animal would be eating in the wild. It seems kind of cruel to feed anything live animals/bugs. But, on the plus side, most reptiles and amphibians need to eat less than fish, so you don't have to give them live animals as often! :D Also, many reptiles can be fed fruits and veggies as well, (at least the ones I owned could), so the bugs were more of a protein supplement. The salamander was a "bug only" diet though..... :S

My husband and I eventually plan on owning a Ball Python, but will be feeding it frozen mice. We will do our best to find ones that have been humanely frozen, (thanks for your research! I now will definitely keep my eyes open for cruelty free suppliers!) I used to own mice and rats as pets, so I can't bring myself to feed them to a snake live.... also, many mice and rats have been known to "fight back" so to say, and have caused scratches and bites in snakes, that can lead to infection and death. I don't want my snakes food killing my snake, lol.

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The thing that has always baffled me about such policies is that people forget how animals in nature actually live. No one drops a nice frozen anything in front of a snake or any other animal that eats live things! They catch them and eat them, period! While it's not fun to think about, nature is cruel and the slow, weak, or diseased become food for those that aren't. There's no sugar coating nature and the way things are. We have had this happen in our own fish tank, where some of our live breeders will eat their own fry. It's been an educational topic for our young daughters, but best to explain how things really work than to shield them from it.

Carnivores are carnivorous. Plain and simple. People can try to sugar coat life for those who want to wear blinders. But the food chain and circle of life exists for a reason. It could be argued that keeping an animal and refusing to feed it it's natural diet is what's actually cruel.

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I don't think they call those fish "feeder fish" they call them something else. Just so they can say we don't sell feeders.

I think that it is the natural cycle of life. I believe it is the owner's perrogative if they want to use feeders. My boyfriend's mom told me a story once,
She went to petco to get a feeder rat for her snake(She has a 'sick' obsession with watching feeder aimals get devoured) and when she was checking out, the cashier asked what she was going to name it. Mom said 'Dinner' and the cashier freaked out, ran to the manager. The manager checked her out and told her not to come back.

When I worked at the animal sancturay, they fed their snakes live feeders. Any respectable snake owner that feeds their snakes live food knows to at least stun the rats(I won't say how, it was quite gruesome) before putting tem in the tank.

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Frontosa Fanatic

As a former Ballpython owner I have to say that I have done pretty much everything as far as feeding snakes goes. I fed them live rats frozen rats(which is a pain in the ass) and I have "stunned" them as well. Let me tell you that breaking a rats neck and watching it twitch is not as pleasant as just tossing them in the tank.

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75 Gallon Planted

the real cruelity is the way the keep their fish.....but ya its a ploy so they can just say that....food chain and all that i dont really see a personally problem for me...just seems dumb of them

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Tank
125g african cichlids making it work
75g rimless Reef in progress

I was mostly saying that more cautious snake owners would stun the rats. my apologies, I didn't meed to offend.

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Frontosa Fanatic

So it's cruel to feed the snake live food. But not crual to keep in confined in a 55 gallon tank.

I was in their a couple of weeks ago. The buy buying fish had no clue what he was doing. And I'm not sure exactly how much the girl getting the fish new. She asked him how big was his tank and he could put 1 fish per gallon. Asked what was in their now he said nothing but she never asked if it was cycled. She gave him about 1 of everything. Schooling fish with no partners. I think he even got a single Angel and a fish from the assorted Cichlid tank. Than she told him about the t 3 day guarantee policy. LOL I'm still kicking myself in the but for not asking him if he knew what he was doing.

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29 gal planted,7 Harlequin Rasbora, 8 Neon Tetra,3 Bolivian Rams,3 Albino Cory,2 Emerald Green Cory
55 gal Lake Malawi
15 gal betta tank

I don't have anything to say for this topic, but I was just at my LPS, and I was watching this beautiful goldfish! I wanted to adopt him, but he was a feeder. Then as he was curiously following my finger along the glass, OM NOM NOM NOM, I watched it twitch helplessly in the huge gar's mouth, and within 20 seconds it was over.

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20 gallon semi planted:
Filters: top fin 10 and 20 power filters.
Fish: 2 panda cories, 1 peppered Cory, 5 kuhli loaches, and 4 cherry barbs.

So, how is it not cruel to feed a snake live food, but before feeding it, you "stun" the food - which by the sounds of it, isn't very humane...... to each his own I guess. :D

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If you look at it, there's nothing really natural or humane about keeping animals in general. Feeder mice are just looked at differently than feeder fish because some people keep them as pets

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Frontosa Fanatic

I used to go to petsmart for feeder fish every week and I never ever thought it was cruel because they are bred for a purpose and that's to be another fish's food. i dont think anybody would want a rosy red minnow in their display tank just for looks when they already look deformed from being incests.
As for mice, I guess they don't call them feeder mice just so they can look good to the public to raise their sales.

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36 Gallon Saltwater reef tank
Ocellaris Clown, Scooter Dragonet, sandsifter star, Decorator crab, emerald crab, coralline snails, blue leg hermit crab, and horseshoe crab.
Zooad's and shrooms
40 pounds of Live sand, 20 pounds of LR

Does the clerk ask you what you're buying the mice for, or do you volunteer the information? If I had a snake and wanted it to have live food I would use the "don't ask don't tell policy"After all, you are the paying customer so it is none of the clerk's business. I'm scared to death of snakes and mice, but that's my opinion about this.

That's not the issue with buying feeder rats at Petsmart. They charge at least double what Petco and other stores charge for rats and put "Fancy" in front of the word rat to make it appear that they are better. It's like saying bottled water is better than tap water. Sure bottled water is run through a filter, but its still water. You can't really filter a rat.

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75 Gallon Planted

Check with the pest control companies. Some of them use non-lethel traps than only traps the rats and mice inside a plastic box without poison, and some use the glue pads. They would probably give them to you.

I no longer have snakes. Also, I would never feed wild rats to my snakes due to disease and what not.

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75 Gallon Planted

Yeah, the mice and rats at petsmart are bred for pets, so tend to be more friendly than regular "lab" or "feeder" mice and rats are. They also cost a whole lot more as well - and they make you sign some form saying you will be giving them a good home.... I mean, you can always lie and just feed them to your snake, but why pay 3x as much when they were meant to be pets, not food.

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